Re: The Health Thread

quicksilvercrescendo Sun 13 Feb 2011, 12:46

Thanks blackbird...this is an extensive reading list.

tgII Mon 28 Feb 2011, 06:42

Reading some of the rants here, Flames, and confirms my view
language is being used to create the world we see around us. In
most cases people are oblivious to this fact.

Voici un bon exemple:

It just goes to show that all politicians are pieces of shit, every last motherfucking one of them.

You are bringing into existence that what you hate most.

Pensez-vous que les erreurs de votre discours?

Flames Mon 28 Feb 2011, 06:56

TG - I recall you mentioning the English language as being a language of commerce. I've really been hitting the topic of social engineering lately, and have been thinking deeply about the implications, of reality manipulation, whether through language or information perception.

It always comes back to me in the form of Levenda's Sinister Forces books about reality being manipulated on some sort of level, and strange synchronicites.

A short rant...

I read a very interesting article today about quantum mechanics and this relates to what you mentioned about "You are bringing into existence that what you hate most." The article went on to say that basically given the fact that photons exist in two states (particle or wave) DEPENDING ON THE OBSERVER. The observer decides which. But the real kicker is the fact that there is a "group multiplier effect", according to the article.

So what you said, is correct. If the outcome of thoughts and reality (on a quantum level) is already decided by the observer, then we manifest the information in the form of our own perceptions of reality.

The subject of social engineering is a vast/deep black hole that runs deep. I've been applying some techniques in my own life to combat the negativity that exists, by changing the way I think, ultimately changing the way synapses in my brain are wired... and it works, but takes great effort.

tgII Mon 28 Feb 2011, 07:10

And then, Flames, if we layer this on top of the fact that bankers
have the capability of manipulating these templates; and there is
a magnification effect (group multiplier effect) going on, then this would
be congruent with news reporting dishing out doom and gloom, death,
destruction, murder, general mayhem and related mind bending negativity
to their great financial advantage.

But you can see right, that the New Age was brought into existence to
control this group think; or as the New Agers call it: 'coming
consciousness'; what bullshit hey? It takes only a few to gather and
revert back to some sanity here - hopefully for the better.

Flames Mon 28 Feb 2011, 07:24

TG - To put it in a nutshell, it basically boils down to the banking classes from recent times, back to Sumer, have created a populace of puppets. A socially engineered, morally and intellectually bankrupt race of narcissistic, energy vampire drones.

Isn't this like the concept of the goyim? I read a book called "Secret Societies & Psychological Warfare" by Michael Hoffman, where he wrote about the purpose of secret societies was to create "a new man", a belief that these people get to play the role of the "gods" in an act of ritual or alchemical transmutation of human consciousness into a new medium.

The way the author detailed this left my jaw on the floor. This concept is ages old. He even went on to say that highly initiated Rabbis in Judaism actually conducted scientific experiments in the past, researching how to create this "new man" into the gentile nations.

I've been reading through Farrell's new book called LBJ & The Conspiracy to Kill Kennedy. He devotes a whole chapter about social engineering, and how he believes that the key purpose was a ritual act to transform the consciousness of a single nation. If you think about it, it was worked very well. A magic bullet, The Warren Commission, none of it made any sense, yet it is accepted. Social engineering and psychological warfare are just the modern terms for this sort of alchemy or sorcery.

tgII Mon 28 Feb 2011, 07:35

...would like to learn more about Ted Kaczynski the 'Unabomber';
although Hoffman goes into his background, I'm wondering, 'Unabomber'
means 'University Airline Bomber'. Lot's of mind bending applications
going on there I think to break down a natural resistance people have to
technology - except these fucking brainless geeks without an ounce of
wisdom who are bringing on this technology for technology's sake.

Flames Mon 28 Feb 2011, 07:39

Speaking of the Unibomber, an author named Hank Albarrelli was interviewed on Gnostic Media recently. He spoke about Kaczynski volunteering in a CIA drug experiment, during his Harvard days. Didn't know about that one!

Hank Albarelli interview – “MK ULTRA – The CIA, LSD, and Mind Control” – #104

tgII Mon 28 Feb 2011, 07:45

That's right, and he is now locked up in the most secure prison
in the universe in Colorado. He was at Northwestern which is
where the first bomb went off. Northwestern is implicated in the
events of 9/11 - think concrete - by the way.

Flames Thu 03 Mar 2011, 03:10

To turn the subject back around for a minute regarding health...

It seems almost every day now, I'm hearing something new about Vitamin D, Vitamin D deficiency, and the health risks involved with the deficiency. According to Dr. Mercola (who has been drilling this for about the last 3-4 months) has been saying that the number one best way of getting enough V-D is from sunlight itself...two being through a safe tanning bed...third being in the form of a supplement.

Thought I'd share that, if anyone wanted to know, or had any comments. Here is some more words from Dr. Mercola regarding Vitamin D.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2002/02/23/vitamin-d-deficiency-part-one.aspx

quicksilvercrescendo Thu 03 Mar 2011, 12:09

You can also check out Weston A. Price Foundation for info concerning Vitamin D.

Flames Sat 23 Apr 2011, 19:32

I just wanted to pose a question to you folks. Do any of you feel different during the change into Spring, particularly in the months of March and April?

I've always thought maybe I was alone in all of this until I googled "Spring Depression", and was amazed to discover many other people saying the same thing.

http://www.healthcentral.com/depression/c/3806/7762/comments

Here are some of the symptoms I experience like clockwork every Spring:

1) increased anxiety in public

2) more isolated

3) rapid mood swings from mania to depression

4) a tendency to shy away from friends and family

5) major sleep problems

6) shame and guilt that seems to come from nowhere, and can't seem to shake it

7) this weird sensitivity to light (headaches)

envious of other peoples' success

I hope this doesn't come across as "poor me" and no I don't need a hug. Just trying to figure out what is going on, as this seems to be a recurrent them in my life over the years.

These symptoms seem to go away by June.

**KapitanScarlet** Mon 25 Apr 2011, 00:30

to tell u the truth , i havent been savvy enough to monitor my moodstate in relation to seasons flames, but that is certainly worth investigating enquiring of others if you have repetitive cycle of similarities
Do you keep a daily diary or just recall from eventfull memory

highnoon Tue 26 Apr 2011, 16:54

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_affective_disorder

i have something similiar its night and day. im happier at night then the day time. if i go outside at night im the only person almost. the neigbourhood and stores around the corner are mine. in the daytime i have to share this space with so many other people. its noisy etc.

traffic also depresses me lol not being in traffic. just seeing it.

Cures for this are hobbies, friends, exercise. Im always trying to find new hobbies. exercise will fix you the best. i find that being exhausted has a pride factor in it and also sometimes just being so damn tired after a workout ending in squats. if i was feeling anything else prior the burned out feeling will override that for the rest of the day. and rest will become very enjoyable. go home and just eat something and relax. and youll want to relax.

yeah back in the fall i started a workout thing. i didnt continue with it until march this spring when weather started getting nice i just kindof adopted this 5 day a week exercise routine that has been good for me. 4 days of weights and 1 day cardio. i used to use drugs to override how i felt but exertion does the job too and i end up with nicer feeling/looking muscles.

Flames Tue 26 Apr 2011, 21:42

The Health Thread - Page 12 Broken-record

Do you keep a daily diary or just recall from eventfull memory

Kapis, I've never kept a journal. My ability to remember cyclic events, and identify patterns of similarity are probably damn near savant like.

Since I have this thought in mind right now, I'll just share it. Imagine a school of fish. Okay. Imagine a school of fish existing in a climate... such as an oil spill.

Little do those school of fish know that the whole fish (as a body or culture) are infected by a toxicity, and they do not have the ability to recognize this. If they were somewhat intelligent creatures, they would say "hey, what the fuck is this shit?" (nods to QSC).

This is kind of how I see things with people, though I am unable to diagnose a cause, because like the polluted school of fish, I too am in the thick of it. I see this with cycles of all kinds, but particularly with seasons.

It's also a matter of connecting very subtle dots. My brain does this for me, I don't have to do shit. For example, as each Easter rolls by, no matter what circumstances there are in my life, I am more or less attacked by very subtle moods and emotions that can't be described, at least by the English language. Most of these moods and emotions probably lay in the "melancholy soup" of these things.

Spring. It effects everything from my breathing (as it is different in the winter), my ability to retain information, and literally a part of my brain becomes activated (which isn't acitivated in any other season). I can't prove this, but I do very well know it's true, because I can put my hand right on the part of my head where "feeling returns."

I could go on and on, but I will just leave it at that.

Like a broken record.

P.S. - highnoon. Stick with the exercise routine. You will thank yourself immensely in the long run. That particular process of purgation (exercise) sounds like something good for you.

highnoon Wed 27 Apr 2011, 13:53

thanks man. i believe that too.

btw. did you catch the hawks/canucks game?

Kapis/flames. friggin canucks won the presidents trophy this year (most points award in regular season). the last years stanely cup winners the blackhawks came in 8th place to face us first round. they knocked us out of the playoffs two years in a row. this round 1 we get 3-0 series lead (need to win 4 games[explaining for kapis flames Smile

] but we lose game 4 7-3 and game 5 5-0. then lose game 7 4-2 in OT.

Game 7 is last night. 3 minutes in the first period alex burrows scores making it 1-0 canucks. The game is 1-0 canucks all the way to 3 minutes left in the 3rd. duncan keith of the hawks gets put in the penalty box with 3 minutes to go giving canucks a power play. the hawks with 1:20 seconds left SCORE on us shorthanded because they chose to penalty kill us with hossa, kane, toews and some other top scorer.

we goto overtime. we have to penalty kill 2 minutes into OT burrows gets sent to the box. we kill that power play. 3 minutes later burrows bats the puck with his hand when he comes back on a line change giving himself a minibreak away and scores we win!!!

DOWNTOWN GIRLS ARE STRIPPING. ITS MADNESS

cheers

OMG i forgot. in the second period BURROWS got a penalty shot which he missed. its just madness how the game centered around everything he did.

**KapitanScarlet** Wed 27 Apr 2011, 18:38

if thats american football or baseball or ice hockey , i know zilch about it , and any talk of it...to me... leaves me falling down a dark hole, but then again , i can counter such talk with a confession that i like to watch the big live tennis matches , and whenever i mention that to anyone, i can also see them falling down a dark hole , metaphorically speaking Very Happy

Ive often wondered why i invest time (not money as i tap into the satellitebroadcasts free with a little bit of technomagic) into watching certain tennis matches when there are so many other things i could be doing with that time, but then again, everything i do, does not stand up to pure progressive reason

I dont know about spring flames, but its like summer where i am Razz

Flames Wed 27 Apr 2011, 23:26

hignoon and Kapis, I'm not really interested in team sports anymore for some reason. Used to be a huge baseball fan, and played baseball and a lot of other sports. I think at some point I just kind of got fed up with it all, however I totally respect phenomenal athletes and their physical talents. I do like watching mixed martial arts though.

It's interesting to me how certain countries identify with certain sports. For example rugby being huge in the UK, baseball in America (Latin America, Japan, etc), hockey is HUGE in Canada, and soccer is pretty much worshiped all over the world, though it's not really that big of a deal in the states for some reason.

seraphim Mon 02 May 2011, 05:45

Hi Flames, I had a few thoughts but I have to post them later, because I have my fifth appendage, aka/little sister wanting constant attention 24/7 that I can't even think.
But do look into a product called ZMA. It's magnesium, b-6 and zinc. I hear it works wonders for getting deep sleep and it also builds muscle by way of increasing testosterone. Also great for having lucid dreams. Better than ambien.
I think I will experiment with the b-6 and magnesium but not the zinc, don't need that horomone. Laughing

**KapitanScarlet** Mon 02 May 2011, 11:56

The guy that created ZMA has a Colourful background
VICTOR CONTE

seraphim Mon 02 May 2011, 22:50

Seems like the founder knows his stuff.

Flames I wonder if you are going through your Saturn return?

Flames Mon 09 May 2011, 04:25

seraphim wrote:Hi Flames, I had a few thoughts but I have to post them later, because I have my fifth appendage, aka/little sister wanting constant attention 24/7 that I can't even think.
But do look into a product called ZMA. It's magnesium, b-6 and zinc. I hear it works wonders for getting deep sleep and it also builds muscle by way of increasing testosterone. Also great for having lucid dreams. Better than ambien.
I think I will experiment with the b-6 and magnesium but not the zinc, don't need that horomone.

Thank you for this, Seraphim, will look into this ZMA product. I did a search to see what foods I eat that provide those vitamins and minerals: Spinach (magnesium and b-6), asparagus (b-6), celery (b-6), cabbage (b-6), garlic (b-6), salmon (magnesium). I also get a lot of my protein from Whey Protein shakes.

Found all of this at this comprehensive nutrition website that I visit a lot:

http://www.whfoods.com/

Just search whatever food and you will find just about everything you need to know.

I hear it works wonders for getting deep sleep and it also builds muscle by way of increasing testosterone. Also great for having lucid dreams. Better than ambien.

Luckily, I've been sleeping great the last couple of nights with INSANE dreams that seem as real to me as waking consciousness, and some of them have been really sexy.

Flames I wonder if you are going through your Saturn return?

Seraphim - I'd like to know more about what this means.

seraphim Fri 13 May 2011, 09:09

I'm looking forward to the farmers market. It seems that just about anything can take it's toll out on the body. If I don't watch out for the stresses in life my body might pay for it. It's so great you take care of yours anyway you can.

As for Saturn return....good question. It's a time in life for changes I hear. It happens when you are about 29-35, and then when you are around 90 years old. Things change in life and can get hectic at these times. I haven't studied any astrology and was going to get one of Tsarion's awhile back, and then recently missed the good discount he was giving. But since the planet's are bodies themselves and perhaps have their own kind of consciousness that can affect us in the cycle sin our lives.

I shy away from all that though because I don't want to be reminded that I will have to go through more things in life. And then there are self fulfulling and other things in charts I don't want to make happen if they are not what I want. I've been through enough already. I realize that I created much of what I go through and what happened to me in my life and can end that anytime. Of course my environment affects me alot in making the outcomes, but it's still up to me in the end. And still I don't really make any decisions. Probably not even my own to begin with.
I really believe that people can do what they will, but not in the state of mind we are in. And so nothing happens and change becomes difficult.

Tsarion's taroscope looks interesting though.
Found this website:
http://www.amazon.com/Greatness-Saturn-Therapeutic-Myth/dp/1571780327

Flames Fri 13 May 2011, 19:27

Cool, Seraphim. Thanks for explaining. I don't know much about astrology, but I will say, I've studied "astrological" phenomenon through physics, and I'm certainly no physicist, but the subject fascinates my endlessly.

This will probably be what I'll look like when I'm old... but with hair.

The phenomenon IS REAL. Modern science seems to be just now considering these ideas, and if one takes the notion of a once previously high civilization that predates antiquity into account, then it could be possible that astrology may be a fragment of a once highly unified physics, that is just now being understood. That's up to speculation, but worthy of taking into consideration.

We know that the moon and other celestial bodies effect tides, and that certain astronomical alignments effect certain (if not all) cycles here on earth, even if the measurements are minute.

I don't know anything about "The Saturn Return." But I can say, that I have been experiencing (how to put it) an extreme access to my will. I don't know what else to call it other than a "self alchemical transmutation of the mind, body, and soul."

This alchemical metaphor seems to be appropriate, because what's happening is, is the process of the reduction of ideas into its basic elements. I can that this is happening, by observing the "stripped away parts."

A lot of my philosophies and universal views have been shifting through a sort of grinder, and the fine material seems to stay pure, while the impure vanishes from my life, to use a metaphor.

In other words, I've been sticking to my guns, my heart, and my intellect. The most potent of these "pure philosophies" has been "life as a purgation." I do my best to not "cling" to any idea or ideology, as I've learned that they change, shift, whither or evolve, from experience. But "life as a process of purgation" works well with me.

I could give many example of this, but I'll just leave it at that for now. By the way, I can't think of a more fitting screen name, because the flame is a perfect symbol for me.

One more thing I'd like to add, is that I've also been experiencing a heavy inversion of accepted concepts, or a natural repulsion or movement to the polar opposite. Heaven being one of them.

It goes completely against my philosophy of purgation, as heaven in this regard, would be inhuman, and therefor without trial and discipline, a concept where experience through physical and mental trial and pain is absent. Quite literally, heaven would be my hell. Eternal punishment by the forced inaction of one's will. I could really go for some weed right now.

**KapitanScarlet** Sat 14 May 2011, 00:18

don't know anything about "The Saturn Return." But I can say, that I have been experiencing (how to put it) an extreme access to my will. I don't know what else to call it other than a "self alchemical transmutation of the mind, body, and soul."

This alchemical metaphor seems to be appropriate, because what's happening is, is the process of the reduction of ideas into its basic elements. I can that this is happening, by observing the "stripped away parts."

A lot of my philosophies and universal views have been shifting through a sort of grinder, and the fine material seems to stay pure, while the impure vanishes from my life, to use a metaphor.

In other words, I've been sticking to my guns, my heart, and my intellect. The most potent of these "pure philosophies" has been "life as a purgation." I do my best to not "cling" to any idea or ideology, as I've learned that they change, shift, whither or evolve, from experience. But "life as a process of purgation" works well with me.

Nicely put elaboration of your existential present status flames Cool

From Steiners Occult Science ...........

Of the present four members of the being of man, the physical body is the oldest. It is also the member that, in its own way, has attained the greatest perfection. Supersensible research shows that this human member was already in existence during the Saturn evolution. It will be seen in the course of this description that the form, however, which this physical body possessed upon Saturn was something quite different from the present human physical body. This earthly human physical body can only maintain its existence by reason of its connection with the life body, astral body, and ego, described in the preceding parts of this book. Such a connection did not yet exist upon Saturn. At that time the physical body passed through its first stage of evolution without having a human life body, astral body, or ego inserted into it. During the Saturn evolution it gradually matured so as to be able to receive a life body. To this end, Saturn had first to pass over into a spiritual state and then reincarnate as the Sun. During the Sun incarnation, what had become the physical body on Saturn unfolded again, as though from a germ of a past evolution, and only then could it draw into itself an etheric body. Through this insertion of an etheric body, the physical body changed its character. It was raised to a second degree of perfection. A similar thing occurred during the Moon evolution. The human ancestor, having evolved from the Sun to the Moon, received into himself the astral body, and thus the physical body became changed a third time; that is, it was raised to the third degree of its perfection. Moreover, the life body was likewise changed, and it stood now in the second stage of its perfection. Upon the Earth the ego was added to the human ancestor consisting of physical body, life body, and astral body. The physical body thereby reached its fourth degree of perfection, the life body its third, the astral body its second; the ego stands only in its first stage of existence.

If we give ourselves up to an unprejudiced examination of the human being, there will be no difficulty in correctly picturing these various degrees of perfection of the individual members. We need only in this connection compare the physical body with the astral. Certainly it is true that the astral body, as a soul member, stands at a higher stage of evolution than the physical body, and when, in the future, the astral body will have perfected itself, it will have a much greater significance for the entire being of man than the present physical body. Still in its own way the physical body has reached a certain climax of evolution. In this connection one need but think of the structure of the heart, organized in accordance with the greatest wisdom, the marvellous structure of the brain and other organs, even that of an individual portion of a bone, for example, that of the upper part of the thigh bone, the great trochanter. There is within the end of this bone a net-like or trestle-like structure of delicate bony fibers, formed in harmony with the laws of mechanics. The whole is fitted together in such a manner that, with the least amount of material, the most advantageous effect on the articular surfaces is attained, for example, the most suitable distribution of friction and as a result a proper kind of mobility. Thus in the various parts of the human body structures are to be found full of wisdom, and if we consider further the harmonious co-operation between the parts and the whole, we shall certainly find that it is correct to speak of the particular perfection of this member of the human being. In this connection, the fact that in certain parts of the physical body seemingly inadequate phenomena may appear, or that disturbances may arise either in the structure or in the functions, is of no importance. We shall even be able to discover that these disturbances are, in a certain sense, only the necessary shadow side of the wisdom-filled light that is shed over the entire physical organism. Now compare with this the astral body as the bearer of joy and sorrow, of desire and passion. Oh, what insecurity reigns in this body in respect of joy and sorrow, what desires and passions are enacted within it, often meaningless and running counter to higher human purposes! The astral body is only in process of acquiring the harmony and inner completeness that we already find in the physical body. In like manner it is possible to show that the ether body, in its way, appears more perfect than the astral body, but less perfect than the physical body, and an adequate consideration will prove that the essential kernel of the human being, the ego, stands at present only at the beginning of its evolutions. For how much has this ego already accomplished of its task of transforming the other members of man's being in such a manner that they be a manifestation of its own nature? What results from external observation in this direction is made more acute for those who understand spiritual science by means of something else. One may quote the fact that the physical body can be overtaken by sickness. Spiritual science is in the position to show that a great part of all sicknesses originates from the fact that the perversity and mistakes of the astral body are transmitted to the etheric body, and in a roundabout way through the latter destroy the complete harmony of the physical body. The deeper connection which can only be touched upon here, and the actual cause of many disease processes elude the scientific mode of observation that confines itself only to physical sensory facts. In most cases it happens that the damaging of the astral body does not produce pathological tendencies of the physical body in the same life in which the damage has occurred, but only in a subsequent one. Therefore, the laws that apply here have a meaning only for those who are able to acknowledge the repetition of human life on earth, but even if there is no desire to gain such deeper knowledge, yet the ordinary view of life shows that the human being indulges himself altogether too much in enjoyments and desires that undermine the harmony of the physical body. Pleasure, desire, passion do not reside in the physical, but in the astral body, and this is in many respects still so imperfect that it can destroy the perfection of the physical body. — We wish to call attention to the fact that no attempt is made here to prove by such arguments the statements of spiritual science concerning the evolution of the four members of man's being. The proofs are taken from spiritual research, and this shows that the physical body has passed through a fourfold metamorphosis on to higher degrees of perfection, and that the other human members, as already described, have undergone fewer transformations. We only wished to point out that these communications of spiritual research relate to facts the effects of which show also in the outwardly observable degrees of perfection of the physical, life, and astral bodies.

A saturn return experience ...from steiners comments on the saturnic consciousness , would seem like a temporary downgrade in spiritual perception for a specific purpose and so i would think that could be a stressful trying ordeal , its purpose may be to carry out a purge of the current baggage before re-integrating the fresh slates so to say and returning an upgraded state Smile

actually i must check out the netloaded interpretation of saturn return, probably too many interpretations out there and just choose what one favours or the one from the school of astrological thoughts one favours
and found some comments here .........

The Saturn Return – Myth and Reality
by Robert Wilkinson

The Saturn return always occurs between the age of 27 and 29, seemingly lasts a lot longer, and is one of the most feared and misunderstood points in personal evolution. It is usually a difficult time with a lot of stress and pressure, where things come to an end, hard realizations are faced, and the weight of the world is felt, very acutely. However, it is also a time of many opportunities to make important choices and decisions, moving out of unconscious patterns and obsolete conceptions of our purpose into more deliberate and thoughtful expressions of our unfulfilled self.

It represents a time of completing a major life cycle, and because it is Saturn, it shows that we now have completed some lessons about what we can do and cannot do, what we can live with and what we cannot. It is a time where we examine our chains, and lift off the ones we no longer need to wear. It is where we choose behaviors that will lead us to forms of dominion and slavery in our life. Before now, these were chosen for us by our elders and our unconscious patterns. But no longer. This is the moment where free will works most powerfully to make our lives a grand adventure in becoming our true authorship in the world, stepping into our chosen authority, or where we perpetuate life habits that enslave us to obsolete authoritarian patterns.

It is a time of important endings, but also major new beginnings that will affect our lives for many years to come. It is a time where our free will shows us more of our life purpose freed from old patterns we once needed, but do not need to live with any longer. It is often associated with a time of hardship, difficulties, and major challenges, but these occur because we are resisting our own tide of personal evolution, or because we need the skills to deal with these things that will help us reveal our higher purpose in the years to come. During this time of clearing our old psychological refuse, whatever must change WILL change, whether we want it to or not, and whether we like it or not.

It is important to note here that Saturn is not "causing" these things to occur. We are the engineers of our own lives, the determiners of our fate through our free will. As it was said, we are the dispensers of "glory or gloom" to ourselves, and no others. Nothing external compels our destiny. Since character is destiny, as we make our character we make our destiny. Saturn and its cycles merely indicate the part of our inner nature which must learn certain lessons as a direct result of our own maturation process, and show us clearly the cause-and-effect cycles we have set into motion before this time of radical choices and changes.

The Saturn return is a time when the "chickens come home to roost," for good or ill. Again, this is a time of evaluating what we can live with and what we cannot. It is the most important time for examining what our priorities are and what must be dropped from our lives to allow us a more mature expression of our "dharma," a Sanskrit term approximately meaning "true function" in the higher sense of the term. This is when we learn to make time and experience our ally, and come out of immature ways and lesser ways of being into our greater response-ability.

Saturn again returns to its birth place again between 57 and 59, where we choose once more how we want to live, this time for what most of us believe will be the rest of our lives. Again we make choices. This time, though, we are challenged to turn away from old limitations, rules, responsibilities, fears, and unfulfilling behaviors. This is the time to distill wisdom from the realizations we’ve had so far, reflected through the filter of over 30 years of adult experience. It’s usually hardest on those who still operate out of immaturity, irresponsibility, or fear. To the extent that we have not learned how to fulfill our higher purpose, or ignored the physical or emotional lessons of the various crisis points between 29 and 58, this is a very difficult time. Of course, it may also show us that we have done exactly what we were supposed to do, and marks the point of embracing a new adventure, having fulfilled the old purpose.

Any time Saturn touches any planet in our charts, it indicates a time when all of the above factors are brought to bear on the psychological function of the planet visited by Saturn. For example, when Saturn conjuncts our Sun, it is a time of receiving the rewards of "living our light," or feeling oppressed as a result of past self-betrayals. It may be a time of recognition for what we have accomplished, and where we restructure how we view illumination, and how we live your heart's higher purpose. Things end, but only those things which our light no longer needs.

When Saturn touches our Moon, it is a time of seeing what habits and feelings we can live with, and which ones have become too calcified to endure any longer. It is a time of restructuring our emotional experience. Though it may be experienced as limiting and restrictive, it also brings emotional and experiential rewards as well as a deepening of our inner connectedness with our true nature if we show the virtues of patience, responsibility, maturity, perseverence, self-discipline, and organization.

Saturn shows us the lessons we must learn to grow in our "authorship" in life, regardless of what personal, interpersonal, or transpersonal sphere we move through. The Saturn return shows us how we are or are not exercising "free will," rather than fear. Saturn is the part of us that has learned to be rigid and authoritarian, but also where we take responsibility for our lives and choices, and come to a genuine life renewal by ending whatever has oppressed us while embracing a more mature sense of self. Saturn may symbolize our limitations, but also shows us the way to the perfection of our personalities so we can live our Dharma, which is our Highest Self.

Though it is not usually a "joyous" time, it can be if we find the right point of view. Though it is not usually an "easy" time, it can be if you are living your higher purpose and don't resist the process of becoming more than we were. We simply must learn what people and circumstances and fears we no longer want nor need, and let go of lesser things. Then we can find a greater maturity, effectiveness, and purpose that enables us to enjoy our future as a grand adventure rather than be frustrated at not being able to stay in childish or unfulfilling patterns of acting, feeling, or thinking.

Ultimately Saturn can lead us to our primal innocence, where we do what’s right for the greatest good for all, without ulterior motives and controlling behaviors. We just have to learn to be mature, without being old. With the perfection of our Saturn function, we become part of the wisdom of our ancestry, our era, and the holographic patterns of all who share our life lessons. Our Saturn lessons help us learn and teach the greater way for those who follow us in the portion of the wisdom we are here to learn. The trick to it all is to embrace Saturn and its lessons and not fear that which makes us greater than we could have imagined.

(Originally posted May 11, 2004)

And can check the taroscope insight for M,s introspection

seraphim Sat 14 May 2011, 08:45

Thanks for that Steiner quote Kapis. And I really appreciate what he's done for children. Meant to add that Saturn is there when born and also around the sixty year mark in a person's life. But I guess that's just one aspect that make up someone.

It goes completely against my philosophy of purgation, as heaven in this regard, would be inhuman, and therefor without trial and discipline, a concept where experience through physical and mental trial and pain is absent. Quite literally, heaven would be my hell. Eternal punishment by the forced inaction of one's will. I could really go for some weed right now.

That's very interesting Flames. Do you believe that something is preventing you from going into your unconsciousness in order to find your higher self? It certainly does sound like you are going through something. We are taught that it is evil to do that, or to literally evolve and that sticks with us subliminally, but we can't ignore the darkness. You must love it, like there is no tomorrow, in order to find your true Self.

It's also interesting what you said too because your last sentence says so much. Although you want to break free, something still has a hold on you. You say you don't want heaven, but then you say you do. It goes deeper than that. I'm not even talking about stress or drugs or doing something you want to do. I'm just saying how subtle things are and how we express ourselves and don't even know it or catch it.
And I do understand what you are saying about heaven, it won't get you anywhere.

I believe a person can have access to their will if they take it all into account. It's great you are going through these things. I wonder how many others are going through a transmutation. I've recently had some horrendous encounters trying to break down some barriers that I believe stop me from evolving.

OKay, I wish you and everyone the best.

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