Some observations on subject/object

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Some observations on subject/object

Post  highnoon on Mon 30 Aug 2010, 16:57

Was thinking this morning driving home how people arrive at conclusions about experiences. I know that not everybody experiences things the same way. But yet some people do, or you would have to assume that some do or that some experience something close enough to practically be considered the same.
So what of people eating vanilla icecream. One person might eat it and think it is good, yet another think its not. But these two people could be experiencing the same taste to arrive at their seperate conclusions, or they might be experiencing different tastes to arrive at seperate conclusions. if its a different experience. then the experience might be the reason for how it is defined. but if the experience is the same, then you cant say that they are perceiving the stimuli different.

or how about two people experiences two seperate things yet arriving at the same conclusion.

two people eat vanilla ice cream and both deem it tastes good. but they're not even tasting the same thing because of their taste bud differences. they each have a different experience but each both label their experiences good.

two people experiencing the same thing, interpreting the thing differently because of differences in perception, yet coming to the same conclusion anyway? they might even have a conversation with each other about it thinking they're sharing a mutual experience. but they will fool each other and reinforce each others beliefs that the ice cream was good when they in fact talking about two ice creams.

but two people who did experience the same icecream because their interpretation was the same due to the same tastebuds. coming to different conclusions about the icecream. might talk to each other and might have an arguement even though their experiences are more similiar than the two people who agree with each other and didnt even have a similiar experience....



So what is more important, the similiarity of the experience or the experience itself? the similiarities in the attitudes shared by two or more about experiences dont even have to be based upon the same experiences even though it looks like they have shared an experience together.
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Re: Some observations on subject/object

Post  KapitanScarlet on Wed 01 Sep 2010, 00:23

People seem to judge any experience first from feeling , and that initially spans the scale of repulsion, bad, indifferent to good to ecstatic
So the first problem i detect in people trying to communicate their experiences is that they have not even developed the language for this individual expression
So they communicate their experiences using other peoples cliches or descripts even although this may be a total misrepresentation of their own unique experience, they are eager to be socially accepted, and giving opinions, any old tried and tested opinion ,but especially ones backed up by the illusion of the societys allegiance , takes precedance to actually accurately elaborating their own individual experience , after all, that may begin to portray them as an outsider and we cant have that

There are many reasons for this, mostly ignorance first then just plain laziness, and then the truthful fact that to really elaborate on an individual experience requires that a person may have to show their own vulnerability because the truth does not censor vulnerability as the ego likes to , and as we exist in a culture that openly worships the most shallow traits of ego 24/7, then its a place that most folks would not dare expose to others , and so they chat using language that does not even express their own feelings, this is what causes that numbness in the brain sometimes around people , like regurgitating the same food over and over again and trying to smile like its fun to do so

Any harmonious group activity tends to nourish an emotional sector of a being , but the downside of this is that it also nullifies acute individual awareness and thus expression , and so there is a need for harmonious people to spend time on their own so that they can keep in touch with their core perceptions

Any disharmonious group activitys tend to generate an internal alienation which manifests in angst and this keeps the individual in a state of disharmony which may increase their inclination to express themselves using words that do not actually portray their present experience because its really uncool to display a state of alienation , unless your a worn out celebrity in need of fresh exposure

Tastebuds ? are they a bit of the chicken and egg formula , their origin , does a person cultivate them or are they given at birth or a bit of both i think
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Re: Some observations on subject/object

Post  highnoon on Fri 03 Sep 2010, 00:10

social acceptance is a foundation for self expression. i think the need for sharing ideas freely in a group is easily surrendered for the security of having a group there to come back to the next day. making your own ideas stand out, you are being oppositional even if you arent trying to be. I think ideas alone though actually are always tied to other ideas. like when you change a rubiks cube in anyway you change lots of other lines on other sides unintentionally. thats why they're hard to solve unless you know how to do it. but a new idea always trojan horses several other ideas or challenges other ideas. i think thats why a single idea is dangerous because it never just challenges the primary context it is talking about.

i dont know about tastebuds, i just thought it was interesting at the time that people having the same experience can actually bond less if they dont agree to what the experience was about or felt like, whereas two people who perceive the experience differently can bond over it greater because they both have the same attitude about their experiences. and thus think they have shared the same experience, but all they share is the feeling about the experience. like if two people see two different movies and talk about the movie using vague terms. oh the main character was great when he confronted the antagonist. but one saw harry potter and the other saw james bond.

sometimes you really dont know what someone really felt or saw even though they are talking about the same thing and you have the same opinion as they do. its like being false witnesses to each other. but the person who is a true witness as you were, doesnt think the same so you dont consider his opinion as valid.

the reason why i thought this was because i had recommeneded caribean dip at my old part time job. it has caribean jerk which is spicy but i dont find it spicy, but i like it. somebody else who doesnt like it also doesnt find it spicy enough. but somebody else who likes it like me does actually find it spicy.

which person is more like me? the person who likes it like i do but tastes a different flavor. or the person who tastes the same flavor like me but doesnt like it?
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Re: Some observations on subject/object

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sat 04 Sep 2010, 00:48

yeah some good observations , with communicating "personal ideas" there is compromise required sometimes depending on the dynamics of the communication relationship, it requires the most appropriate moment to introduce certain types of idea , if you communicate your ideas in the wrong moment or with the wrong tone, it dramatically affects the idea itself because personality then overides idea, and the seeds of war can be sown and in any communication, there is an emotional requirement as well as an intelllectual requirement, but the emotional requirement vastly supercedes the intellectual one in many cases that i witness.

But with communicating "experiences" i interpret a different dynamic, because where communicating ideas can just be intellectual table tennis , communicating experiences always contain actual memory of lived emotion / feelings , but every personal experience can be explained in a simple monotone or can be elaborated in a dramatic expose
People are not used to reflecting deeply on their every single experience as a unique momentary event , but they are very adept at quickly assigning their every experience into an existing societal model of explanation, and in doing so, they restrict their own growth and compound their secret isolation in a psychic abyss

There is nothing more pleasing than meeting someone that can absolutely speak from their own uniquely formed point of view on most anything and they are not mentally conditioned by the daily grind fastfood psychology

The problem being these days that if you try to uniquely elaborate an experience to someone not accustomed to that form of communication, they can begin to feel very uncomfortable, and it can begin to arouse hostile forces in them , because you are taking them out of their comfort zone of communications which may be sandwiched in societys cliches.

Rather than accept societys absurd proposal that experiences are named and filed in predefined boxes
I think every experience is only partially understood and can be further understood by the intention to do so, and this is the absolute first priority in separating the self from the pack , alchemical move that it be

The ego-self has a crafty skill of appeasing the "I" that it understands something emotional , it is only if the "I" attempts to communicate this understanding to another self , that it truly recognises the weakness of its egos certitude, and for a moment, the "I" realises its not in complete control of itself, but pretty soon, the ego slips on the blinkers again because ole habits die hard , the only way the "I" can rise the energy to disipline the ego, is when it experiences a critical emotional event








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