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quicksilvercrescendo
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Post  highnoon Thu 09 Feb 2012, 02:47

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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Thu 09 Feb 2012, 07:48

The use of a large magic marker pen is very useful in knife fighting drills and sparring to simulate where a blade makes contact...and working with distance, speed and timing.

But there are some stark cold realities when it comes to...the knife.

Most people, even trained, will freeze up when they are attacked violently and by surprise during their daily lives and routine even without a weapon being involved.
It is just a common natural reaction not to react because you are surprised that someone would even attack you when you least expect it...the mind just freezes long enough for the attacker to overwhelm the victim.
So a surprise attack coupled with a deadly knife is almost impossible to defend against...and even more difficult if the victim is in the ground and fatigued.
Your odds of survival are quite low...realistically...non-existent.

An unarmed person defending against a knife wielding motivated attacker is really at a severe disadvantage....almost impossible to defend against.
You must expect that you will get cut, disabled or even killed.
It is best if you can run and get away. Or use some type of improvised weapon to assist your defense like a shirt, rope, chair etc. if you are not able to run away.

And once you are cut with a knife and literally opened up...the natural reaction is to now freeze up and be in a state of shock.
Almost impossible to now remember training and execute any method of self-defense.

I have been able to stand off with my knife in a sheath against an opponent with a holstered pistol on their side and can reach them before they can draw and sufficiently aim the gun at me at twelve to fifteen feet distance. Meaning even with you having a holstered gun at the ready, I can run up...close 12-15 feet of distance...while unsheathing my knife and fatally stab you with it before you can draw, properly site the target and pull the trigger and hit me with a fatal shot.
Someone with a lot of training with a gun may be able to do better, but it is still quite surprising to see how a motivated knife wielding attacker can get a lot of distance and quickly start to slice and dice.

I would do my best not to have to fight anyone with a knife if at all possible...because really...your a dead man.

I am still waiting for my latest acquisition to arrive in the mail from the custom sharpener making this a double edged knife...a beautiful knife for just forty bucks. I highly recommend one of these for when the civil unrest goes down and you need to take out a couple of starving stark raving mad zombies...unless you think you will ascend in 2012 or jesus is going to come back and make every little 'ting gonna' be all reet.

"Magic Marker"
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Post  seraphim Thu 09 Feb 2012, 08:35

Does it really boil down to kill or be killed. And learn how to do it. I really don't want to even be in this universe if it has to be that way.
I have a few knives too, but I have to find better ones. Too bad it gets down to that.
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Thu 09 Feb 2012, 10:47

This is all too true. It is really just too easy to get killed or injured with weapons and actual combat.

And of course Flames...the gun, particularly when aimed at range, is superior to anything. Would not want to argue that at all.
I have been robbed at gunpoint twice and one instance had five pistols aimed at my head simultaneously during a restaurant robbery where I had worked.
In both instances it was the proper assumption to read the situation that the desire for money was the motive and not to commit violent acts.
In that instance you hand over your wallet...and thank "The Jesus".

But my point was that I can close 12 to 15 feet on someone with a holstered weapon and get to them with a knife before they can kill me.
It is important to know that as both a user of a knife or a gun.

I have also been held and robbed at knife point. Someone with a knife worries me more. Because they usually can't afford a gun and will tend to be a bit more aggressive.
And they may also feel the need to gut you to guarantee their escape on foot. Fortunately, this did not happen to me.

Being aware of your surroundings and using avoidance and evasion are the prime tools for self-protection. I usually am, but was not able to avoid these scenarios that just pop up when you least expect them. And martial arts or fighting would really have been the last thing to attempt unless you positively, absolutely felt like your life was going to be extinguished. Then you may as well do something in those final moments.

Seraphim. Here in Norway it is difficult to own a gun unless you are a registered hunter or belong to gun club.
So knives become the best second choice for scumbags.

In the last year there has been five different stabbing incidences reported in the media.
These are actually happening in public places like on buses or trains and seem to be quite random or petty robberies.

Consider this...
A few years back a man boarded a public bus, pulled out a knife and stabbed ten people.

What will you do when you are seated behind this man and you see him coming at you with a knife?

Answer for ninety-five percent of the people....at that moment you will quite naturally psychologically and physically freeze and end up being stabbed

And very rarely will you have the time or ability to draw your own weapon in self-defense to a surprise attack.

I have rarely ever viewed a martial arts video that went over this reality prior to going through scenarios, techniques, drills and sparring.

And for streetfighting you never want to go to the ground...ever. So fuck that MMA bullshit. Train to kill anyone rushing in to take you down so you never go down to the ground.
Nor should you ever have to or attempt to throw a kicking technique higher than someone's waist height.
To attempt to kick higher up on a person...you risk your own safety far too greatly.




Last edited by quicksilvercrescendo on Thu 09 Feb 2012, 16:19; edited 2 times in total
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Thu 09 Feb 2012, 11:07

Here is a list of some banned illegal techniques in Ultimate or MMA Fighting...these are a few of my favorite things.

My whole fighting technique is centered around vital point striking.
Because I don't need to stand around and exchange blows and risk getting hit. Most martial arts, fighting and sport fighting are battles of attrition...exchanging blows for a long duration of time...avoid this. I want to leave the fight without a scratch.
Two to three moves and it needs to be over and I am quickly making my exit...leaving behind a severely maimed scumbag or a corpse.
And what is great about this is that you don't need supreme flexibility and conditioning and you can defend somewhat well against very skilled and conditioned experienced fighters.
You can learn a practical iron defense and lethal offense within your own customized style in six months time. After that it is just a matter of repetition to instill the moves into muscle memory and to concentrate on not psychologically freezing up when surprised by an attacker.
Because I am busy and got stuff to do...with no time for scumbags.

Hair pulling
Head-butts
Striking or gouging the eye, or area around the eyes
Striking the ears
Striking the temples or nasal septum
Striking the throat or neck
Striking the axillary area and vital nerve areas
Fish hooking
Biting
Groin attacks
Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
Small joint manipulation.
Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh.
Grabbing the clavicle.
Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.
Stomping a grounded opponent.
Kicking to the kidney with the heel.
Spiking an opponent to the ground on his head or neck.
Spitting at an opponent.
Engaging in an unsportsmanlike conduct that causes an injury to an opponent
Timidity, including, without limitation, avoiding contact with an opponent, intentionally or consistently faking an injury to draw in the opponent.

And if standing off with someone who you now know wants to fight you...and you know you are going to have to fight...
Throwing something stashed in your hand such as your keys, some dirt, some loose change or coins, a cigarette butt, your sunglasses or glasses of your face, some shredded paper, or just spitting , or any object into their face will buy some crucial time and opportunity to pretty much allow you to lay them out...permanently.
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Post  seraphim Sun 12 Feb 2012, 05:23

Hi Blackbird Smile
If you can do that, then you certainly can be free from a marriage. You only have one chance this lifetime, who knows how many before, but right now you have to take care of your self and how can you do that if you are unhappy. If counseling does not work for you, then get personal support and move on. You have so much potential and life is waiting for you. You said you don't want to hurt others but you are hurting yourself my dear. I love you
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Mon 13 Feb 2012, 00:16

First time ever fighting for a reason (beyond sparring and wrestling for practice, was the only girl on my high school team, not allowed to compete because there were no other female opponents, and I'd learned at a early age some techniques in self defense)... a gorilla girl stole my friends purse. I busted in the door of the girls bathroom to find this chick rifling through my friends missing/stolen purse.

I should explain properly, to set the scene. At a bar, while playing some hard rock on the jukebox and imbibing some shots of tequila, my little blond friend ( i say little only because she is smaller of build than myself) comes running up to me, she takes my hand to follow, no time to properly explain other than "this bitch stole my purse" and I, still with a carefree smile on my face went along (again this happened so quickly, I didn't get what was happening). She takes me to the bathroom and I punched in the first stall door to find this very large woman seated upon the stool. I said to her, that is my friends purse...she replied " was checking to see whose it was". I recall saying YA RIGHT, as I grabbed it from her lap and threw it behind me to my friend standing, waiting. She stood and towered over me, she put her hand upon my throat and put me against the stall wall. I said, you better take you effing hand off of me, she began to squeeze and I straight right hooked her in the temple. We traded blow for blow, can't say for how long but probably not much more that five minutes (most likely even less than this, but it was some time for sure). She was a very large woman in comparison to myself and I could tell this was not her first rodeo. After I split multiple face shots, I did the unthinkable (as far as I was concerned the matter was settled) ...I turned my back on the beast to leave. She-beast seized on the opportunity to leap on my back leaving me backside on the floor. I felt ready and comfortable, knowing that a good hard kick or over turn across my body would be sufficient once she decided to do so.

Luckily for me my friend had ran out and left me to find some help. While crashing out the bathroom door, the owner of the bar head- locked so called woman and pointed at me saying "you get the fuck out (he thought I was the aggressor being that I was not wounded as the other whose face was bloodied)"! I nodded and said yes as my friend explained the situation. He then said "go have a seat" and I did so, as calm and cool as an iceberg salad. Never had I experienced such a thing... my whole life growing up in a small town where a party is not a party unless there are multiple physical fights of girls and guys.

After all was done, the thief was kicked out and somehow I'd retained her watch in my hand, a friend of hers (she-beast) even brought me my shoes). It took me thirty years growing up in a place were this kind of violence happened regularly, to experience a real fight on the other side of the country.

I feel good about getting my friends purse back to her, but to this day I still think about my mistakes, and how I could have done things differently. I was bruised a bit in the face, but nothing like what I'd done to the other. I keep remembering the quote "To harm another is to harm oneself" I still have her watch and I wanted to leave it at the place where this happened so she-beast might one day have it again. I've no use for it. Would not have hit her had she not aggressed me first...that is a fact! And am not sure how my reaction would have been if I'd had my usual companion of blade. I still think about this, still wish it had gone differently, even though I was the victor.

The owner of the bar (first time ever going there), looked at me and said "would never have expected such a thing from one so sweet of face", he bought the next round of shots. All I could think of as people patted my back was...could I have done something to avoid hurting someone else...

Thanks for sharing the story Blackbird. But in this case just prior to this person physically putting their hands upon you...you were the aggressor.
In a way, the barkeep was actually quite correct.
Here is why...

A friend has a purse snatched from her.
This is theft or robbery without violence as far as you know at that moment.
A non-violent act, but a crime.
At that point your friend is the victim.
She had two responsible options for herself...tell the barkeep of the theft and he would alert bar security or take the role of bar security if that were also his professional responsibility and pursue the robber into the bathroom. Or she, or the now informed barkeep, could call the police.
Any other option, like chasing the person down leading to an eventual confrontation, is...aggression...on her part.

So not only did the victim not take care of the non-violent crime incident on her own behalf properly with either of those two options, she commandeered you...neither the victim, the perpetrator, nor the one who may have a professional obligation or responsibility to address the matter...to now chase down the robber into the bathroom.
And with that lack of knowledge as to the entirety of what was really going on, as you stated in your own words, while under the influence of alcohol, you accepted that role and punched into the door as you entered, demanded and then took the purse back.
And you also did not choose the other two responsible non-aggressive options that were available to your friend...the victim.
You "fought", but fighting is not self-defense. And you escalated, by seeking confrontation, the situation to a violent fight.

So before evaluating anything further regarding the actual physical confrontation or who touched who first....

Technically you were in the wrong. The wrong place, doing the wrong thing, defending the wrong person and doing it the wrong way.
You were the aggressor and your actions accelerated the theft into a violent exchange which could have never been violent without that acceleration.

And the chick could have pulled out a knife and stuck it in your throat instead.

But I understand completely where you are coming from with this scenario.
But the barkeep, the cops, the jury and the judge would view it the way I am describing.
And you would most likely be found guilty of a crime in both a criminal and civil court.
Only by the fact that you were not involved in any role in the actual crime and chased down the perpetrator yourself while you had been drinking.
Those would damn any further defense in regards to when things got physical no matter who started it.
And you would be asked why did you not inform the barkeep, call the police or have the barkeep call the police...as these would have been non-aggressive actions for a non-victim in a reported crime to pursue.

But you have the wisdom to examine and re-examine your role and the mistakes you may have made. That is a rare quality.

I only post this response to recommend that anyone interested in self-defense read every article on the following website first before learning any technique or style...

...very useful and a valuable wealth of information here...this will prevent one from making serious mistakes...I thought I knew a lot, but this site's articles taught me things...one of the best reads I ever had...

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Mon 13 Feb 2012, 12:31

I think tough girls are sexy... Wink ...just not dead ones.

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Post  KapitanScarlet Wed 15 Feb 2012, 01:11

i believe I'm located in a country with one of the highest knife crime in the world , my hope is to never be confronted by a knife wielding maniac , running would be my first choice , but from reading the comments above i can see there are many things to be aware of .
My bottom line is to avoid violence at most costs because i think there is a potential nutcase in all people and if that nutcase gets channelled , people can so easily die in a moment of madness
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Wed 15 Feb 2012, 11:51

And if you cannot run or get away...some type of object or weapon could be of great value. Whether this is ripping off your shirt and wrapping it around your forearm to now get ready to do battle or use the shirt to snag the opponents arm or weapon. Throwing something in their eyes or into their face to buy time and create distraction. A chair. An ashtray on a restaurant table. Even using another human being as a shield......one must improvise in such dire situations to save one's own ass.

But do read that website I posted on self-protection strategies and also on the realities of knives and the difference between fighting vs. self-defense.
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Post  KapitanScarlet Thu 16 Feb 2012, 02:10

Will do Qsc, i resisted to mention because i don't like to flashback on it , that i once was confronted by a knife wielding maniac, i was just leaving a public house , and its front entrance door had a small hallway about 1.5 mtrs square before the outside street door , as i entered the outer hallway , a bearded dude appeared at the outside door and as i stepped to the left anticipating him passing me on his way in , he said hey you , (he had mistaken me for being part of a gang of youths that had been shouting abuse at him or something out on the main street) as he accused me with cold dark dead eyes, i suddenly became aware that he was holding a knife in his hand pointing at my body , i was now standing in the corner of the hallway and could not move an inch , what happened was that i don't think i even had time to be scared or react in any way because i had never encountered anything like this and especially with no warning at all , i just looked at his eyes and said it wasn't me , I'm not sure how long he was in limbo for, but he just turned and departed , as i was starting to realise what had gone down, i heard a lot of screams coming from along the road, and then police appeared, he had stabbed somebody along the street
That incident made up my mind to leave that town which i had been considering at that time , because afterwards i realised that was a potential life changing incident ....phew
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Thu 16 Feb 2012, 11:22

Most physical attacks, and especially with a knife, are going to be in a surprise, ambush or assassination context.

Little one can do at that moment other than take it on the chin.

And, again, even with a lot of training and experience it is very common and likely one will psychologically and physically freeze at that moment. Like as if time stop and you never even think to run or raise your arms in defense....you are just like...duhhhhhhhhhhh!

But still training for self-defense is valuable because there are times when it will work for you.

My big knife has just arrived in the mail and it is a thing of beauty.

But realistically, a big knife like this cannot be legally carried and can be a hinderance when one actually needs to use a blade in combat. So this one stays at home hanging in my closet and I use it for drills and practicing techniques. To go larger with a knife and I may have to just go with a mini-machete instead.
Smaller knives that cannot be seen, but brought out unseen and unexpected during a melee are more effective.
Also one that is designed in a way to prevent someone from taking it from you.
I will perhaps highlight some other knives in my collection.
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Sat 26 May 2012, 12:01

Fighting...but not combat.
Fighting beats those of far inferior skill...but also gets one killed.
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Post  highnoon Wed 24 Oct 2012, 06:08

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Post  highnoon Wed 24 Oct 2012, 06:36



about vadim starov of systema....man..i dont know what to believe. it looks like he is changing his tempo all the time and being very anticipating and making a bunch of counter movements in advance. i can see some complex spacing this guy does....but i just dont see how the boxer could be punching like that and be "mindfucked" to miss to and fall over.

so skeptical but ive seen the xing yi boxing before and its shocking what proper body training of kinetic fluid movements can do for power for movements that seem to lack the power of conventional punches.

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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Wed 24 Oct 2012, 20:22

The only way to know if it is real is to be on the receiving end.
I have met a few who could do this and have been on the receiving end and it was quite real, but there are fakes out there making videos as well.
It comes from China and can be found in Indonesia as well. Based on chi and fa-jing.
There are appropriate defenses against it, but you must be able to also use chi and fa-jing.
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Post  quicksilvercrescendo Sat 22 Dec 2012, 21:19

Rosie Mestel

December 20, 2012, 12:44 p.m.

Why are our hands the shape that they are? Compared with those of other apes, the thumb is longer and the palms and fingers are short. Scientist have a variety of ideas as to why they evolved to be that way:

--The comparatively longer thumb allows us so much more dexterity, permitting us to make tools.

--The proportions of the hand may be the indirect consequence of natural selection for a foot with a long toe, so handy for keeping balance while walking. (Hand and foot development occur along very similar lines, and many of the same molecules are involved. That means natural selection for one would affect development of the other as well.)

Researchers at the University of Utah have another suggestion: The hand is the shape that it is because it allows us to make a nice fist for fighting that protects key parts of the hand from harm.

The proposal, made by student Michael Morgan and biologist David Carrier, was published in the Journal of Experimental Biology. The duo tested their hypothesis in a series of experiments in which men pounded punching bags, squeezed pressure sensors or performed one-handed push-ups on top of pressure sensors. From this, the scientists learned that force meted out by the hand is about the same when a bag is punched by a fist versus slapped, but nearly twice as great when you consider that the fist delivers its force to a smaller surface area. The study also found that the knuckle joint of the index finger is rendered stiffer and more stable -- transfering force more effectively and protecting the hand -- when a tight fist is made.

In other words, the fist is a dandy fighting tool.

Here’s a summary of the article at the journal site and the scholarly paper itself.

The duo isn’t saying that the advantages of manual dexterity and selection for a different foot shape played no part in hand evolution -- just that fighting may have done so as well.

And, they write, “there appears to be a paradox in the evolution of the human hand. It is arguably our most important anatomical weapon, used to threaten, beat and sometimes kill to resolve a conflict. Yet it is also the part of our musculoskeletal system that crafts and uses delicate tools, plays musical instruments, produces art, conveys complex intentions and emotions, and nurtures.”

You could imagine a lot of hand shapes that could do one of those two skill sets well, they write. “There may, however, be only one set of skeletal proportions that allows the hand to function both as a mechanism for precise manipulation and as a club for striking.”

If you have not done specific conditioning over time to be able to use the bare fist in an actual combat encounter, you will very likely break a finger or fracture your fist in a real fight. This can then leave you quite handicapped and vulnerable.

This is why if you don't have the time or do such extensive fist conditioning, open palm and other type of striking with the hand is actually preferable.
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Post  KapitanScarlet Sat 22 Dec 2012, 23:18

in these days of technology , theres probably very few enthusiasts left that actually still practice fist punching , so many weapons avalable now that will incapacitate another with one blow or strike
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Post  highnoon Sun 28 Jul 2013, 08:41

thought it was interesting how this guy talks about how reproduction weapons are never as good as artifact weapons. because a bit of knowledge about smithing these weapons has in fact been lost to the ages.

Don Nelson SwordForum.com wrote:Welcome!

First, let me say that I dislike Hollywood, and I dislike all the non-sword-handling "experts" out there in the communities of game designers, role playing gamers, authors, some modern sport fencers, and Ren Faire/Anime aficianados who perpetuate so much of the garbage that slews about, regarding Katana.

According to them, Katana are items made by Elves - light as a feather and strong as dragon scale (yeah, I know, that description was for Mithryl, but you get the idea).

To see Katana wielded on the big screen, they appear as swords easily whipped about in complex techniques with one hand, as if they had little weight, and a point of balance right at the guard.

And of course, the brutish old European Medieval swords weighed ten pounds (or up to 50 pounds according to some sources) and needed both hands to ponderously crash into their opponents' heads.

The fact is, both Katana and Euro Medieval swords weighed very similarly though the European swords seemed to cover a bit wider span of weights.

Most of the Katana I've held, or studied weighed generally between 2.0-lbs and a wee bit over 3.0-lbs. Most of the Katana I've handled or studied, had points of balance running in the range of 5-7" from the guard, maybe some a bit less.

Most European swords I've studied, and the allegedly good reproductions I've hefted varied in weight from 1.75-lbs to some real monsters weighing just under 5-lbs. However, the "typical" Euro Medieval sword weighed generally between 2.25-lbs and 3.0-lbs.

I am very reluctant to use the term "typically" above, because Medieval European swords came in hugely wide varieties of shape, weight, balance and length. But again, based on my own study of experts who have handled hundreds of these swords, they seem to most often fall tidily into the 2-3 pound range above, just like Katana.

If the blade and handle (hilt or tsuka) seem too long, the problem could be you are just not used to it, or they could in fact be too long for you either because of your body shape (not all 6' tall people have the same length arms and legs for example), or based on your martial arts style.

I am 5'8" tall. For me personally, a Katana with a 28.0-28.5" Nagasa length (translates into roughly a 29.0-29.5" blade) and a 10.5-11.0" Tsuka are ideal.

I have a Katana that has a 29.0 or 29.5" Nagasa length, and it is in fact, always just about one-half inch too long for me. I find myself always hanging up on the draw, on the last half-inch of blade. Bugs me (grin). Makes me look more clumsy than I really am, and that is pretty bad already (LOL)!

Some martial artists really like long tsuka, say 13-15", but for me personally, I'm always hanging the end of the tsuka up on either my own body or my clothes. So a tsuka of that length does not work well for me. This is also a direct by-product of my fighting style which is aggressive and close in. If I adopted a more "open" or "distance oriented" fighting style, then the longer tsuka would not be a problem for me.

Finally, let's discuss something that has been talked about innumerable times in innumberable locations through out time, and that is, how "real" swords that were crafted at the time that swords were used, with the input of real sword warriors to the smiths who made them, compare to modern reproductions.

There *IS* a difference in how these two swords feel. Some folks, especially those who have never hefted a true "artifact" sword tend to dismiss this as simply the romantic emotionalism of the moment when one gets to handle the real thing - that because of that, the person holding the sword imagines or exaggerates the fine handling qualities of the sword.

Well, that might be the case with some folks, but I do not believe that is the case with me, and I do believe that once a person gets used to handling real swords, that the novelty and emotional rush of the moment wears off, so we are left with an objective, even if anecdotal, assessment of how artifact swords compare to modern reproductions.

There *is* a difference, and I believe these differences could ultimately be determined if enough measurements were made.

Now, this does not mean that some really ungainly swords were not made back then. You will find some. But generally, the artifact swords tend to be fairly nice feeling.

I have hefted a few modern reproduction Katana and they felt anywhere from "pretty danged good" to "simply, just there".

When I was in Japan, I hefted a LOT of artifact Katana. Don't recall how many but I think a dozen or more would be a fairly accurate estimate. There was no comparison. These Katana which varied in age from 160 to 600 years old, all felt VERY nice.

I am 48 years old, been handling weapons of various types since I was seven. At my age I am not easily impressed by weapons. But I was impressed with these. No, they didn't handle with the feather like ease of "Blade" or that character in the "Matrix" or McLeod in "Highlander".

But they did feel "better" some how. More easily moved and with a lighter grip required. Miyamoto Musashi said that a "light grip" with index finger, and a stronger grip with the last two fingers was best. With these swords, that was indeed true.

In my younger days (20-30 years ago) I had the opportunity to heft a number of US Civil War and post-Civil War sabers. All I recall about that was that they all felt really terrific!

Recently I acquired an actual British 1796 Light Cavalry Saber. I had a reproduction of that same sword and when I compared the two side by side, I was stunned. The repro never felt bad really. It just never felt good (shrug).

The actual 1796, on the other hand, felt fantastic. It might be a bit lighter - I'll find out this weekend, but the difference was not just in the weight, but in the balance and the shape and feel of the hilt. I was going to sell my reproduction 1796, but I've pretty much decided to keep it now just so I can have people compare the two of them side by side.

All I can say is, that during those times when swords were used as weapons, the warriors and the smiths were able to craft into those weapons all the small little subtleties that must have seemed common knowledge and common sense to them, but have been lost throughout the years in varying degrees.

I know that in Japan, craftsmanship techniques are handed down from smith to apprentice, generation after generation, but even so, I can't help but wonder if over the decades as actual military use of the sword grows farther into Japan's past, how much, if any, of those subtleties might someday be lost as well. Perhaps none of it. Maybe perhaps it's already begun. I don't know (shrug).
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