Michael Tsarion Revisited

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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  Sputnik on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 13:24

@Kapis, I tend to disagree with your idea that Mtsar tries to 'overcome those fanatical divides' by pointing it out, to the contrary, his work actually pours more oil into the fires and he has shown to be a 'fanatical anti christian'. He seems
to have not overcome his own demons yet. The bottom line is this: you can't demand from others that which you are not willing to give in return. Or to be precise: you can't expect anything better. Isn't it logical then that if you tear down somebody elses idols, that you make yourself a target, if you appear as the idol of some counter-movement? To debate certain topics it would be so much more helpful not to attack others on a personal & emotional level, lest one is prepared to receive in likewise manner!

As you can see, my (own) convictions are not chiseled in stone,
I breath them with my every heartbeat for as long as I share the same airwaves.


@TG *lol*, I guess the Irish can be glad they didn't turn out to be those miscreants who founded the State of Israel?
If you ought to steal something, one should make sure it's worth something, no?


Well, to play the devil's advocate a little, sometimes there is no way to get rid of someone who is impacting your life negatively, other than ignoring them.

[Evil does not disappear by ignoring it; it thrives on ignorance]

@Flames, it always depends on the motive. You talk about friends that behave like arseholes, so I wonder if you ignore/excuse their atitudes, or if you ignore your inner voice that tells you that they are arseholes. But I truly understand your motive...most people don't act consciously. "Maybe" they would act better if they could? The question then is: do they consciously avoid to realise how they are (towards others), or have they really fallen from grace?



To finish my little story...
So what happened next in the situation I mentioned before; the young women I spoke of had a nervous break down when she was confronted with her own "character". Her mother is a teacher and I guess she never lived up to her mother's expectations. One day she started crying in class when she was unable to wind her head around some very simple subject...and all the pretense went with it. She clearly had a deeply ingrained "competition-complex" that acted like a spiritual parasite on the subconscious mind, to feel the pain of not fulfilling the "role"...unloved and rejected by "Mother".

During the three month I had to spend with this group I felt most delighted to be who I am, that's something to be ignored *lol* and while I turned out to be too tough, they shifted their anger towards a guy who used to hang out with "the group".
He became the scapegoat for all the shit they carry inside of themselves. Isn't it always like this...

GROUPS & SCHOOLING it always turns out the same way, better believe it.

In conclusion I would never recommend anyone to ignore the mob..you can't change the group, as an individual, you can only redirect their madness and use it against them. A reasonable selfdefence. But here too it all depends on ones own motives...if you just reflect the hate of the mob (for what it is) and think you can exploit them in one way or another
...you go down with them, maybe even faster..

Concerning Mtsar; the only thing I am grateful for is Michael Tsarion's attempt to raise the subject of "self"..
his 'living up to it' still needed some refinement, otherwise he would have not dealt with me, I am sure.

I wonder what happened to his crazy Rosecrucian friend "Kris"?
He called me vampyr (so did Vivian Vivaldi) and proclaimed to exorcise me back in 2009,
ever since he kinda got really quite...or at least changed "identity" ...or "character".

And sometimes I wonder if Michael Tsarion would like to re-invent himself, things would be so much easier..right?
but this is about the "self" with which we have to live forever, if that is applicable to oneself, or at least for a lifetime.

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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 16:34

Kris became a freemason and had long ago sent me some photos of himself in his masonic garb.
Who knows how many Great White Brotherhood demons possess him now.

Vivian Vivaldi is a contributor to Eric John Phelps Vatican Assassins website.

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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 02:22

I tend to disagree with your idea that Mtsar tries to 'overcome those fanatical divides' by pointing it out, to the contrary, his work actually pours more oil into the fires

My comments that u refer too, were strictly relating to a particular audio talk.
Are your comments about my comments also strictly referring to my comments about that video ? or have you collected my comments of that particular talk and overspilt into something that you believe beyond that particular talk , and if so.................
and he has shown to be a 'fanatical anti christian'.

i refer to the reason why this thread was propelled in order to soundboard any thoughts then corelate them with facts then if facts not available to back up said belief or accusation , then put forth a treatise or essay giving reasons for the said belief that will allow other readers to SEE where the belief seeds from and grows its roots , as in the rationalised study of the accused or the projected prejudiced imagination of the accuser

He seems to have not overcome his own demons yet
.
Show me anyone that has Uri ? and even if you can, its no guarantee that they will have for the remainder of their future , thats what keep this life exciting and dangerous, the unpredictability of things in general, although it seems there is some form of judgemental/reward/punishment system that operates of its own accord in the psychic landscape of humanity , and as Jim the Morr did say, You surely Cannot petition that entity with prayer , you can quietly pray though and hope it answred , but if you petition , demand, then surely you may be well refused , but who can say for sure Uri, we are all here making up the picture as we go , and comparing pieces to try an fill in the gaps (;

To debate certain topics it would be so much more helpful not to attack others on a personal & emotional level, lest one is prepared to receive in likewise manner!
Sometimes the lord likes to do some skelping Uri, and moves in mysterious ways indeed , the best anyone can ever do, is not betray their selfs, that is, if theyve actually found their selfs yet , thaty seemds to be the hardest sound to tune into for the majority, because there are so many persuasive influences calling all day and all of the night

Its a tough game , sometimes it cuts so deep , sometimes it gives so sweet , and we all want to be in control , and in following certain steps , it will allow that to happen, but one can never get over confident nor complacent, or one shall find themselves slipping , and in that slide is where the self knowledge kicker lies, the self that sees from behind its presenting self (that had hijacked those controls again , such a sleight of hand , a true genius )

And now my self has decrypted , i can breathe freely once more this eve

(:

Kris became a freemason and had long ago sent me some photos of himself in his masonic garb
And if by any chance , Kris , b reading this , may he tell me now with all assurance that the G-Men werent really government men at all

And thats enough cryptic comments for 33 eves

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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  Sputnik on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 11:29

My comments that u refer too, were strictly relating to a particular audio talk.
Are your comments about my comments also strictly referring to my comments about that video ? or have you collected my comments of that particular talk and overspilt into something that you believe beyond that particular talk , and if so.................



Kapis wrote:Hi TG , I'm certainly keeping tabs on the M forum, that tube link at top of this page i posted is one where he's going over again (amongst many other things) about the current mindset in ireland regarding the protestant catholic fanatical divide that has really crippled much of the irish psychology in recent history , that very same sickness spills right across the water into western scotland and beyond , and I've witnessed personally the absolute blind violent fanaticism that comes out of this fixated mindset in scotland , I've got to tip my hat to tsar for going into this subject matter , because very very few people will go any where near such a discussion , off course i see this fanaticism on similar grounds to all the other fanaticisms that are conditioned into human psychology by very crafty practitioners of high-thought
, its just a very good working model to show how easy it is to pit humans (brothers against sisters etc ) against each other , but those immersed in this conditioning are practically paralysed into a one dimensional mind fix
He's done a fantastic job in that discussion distinctly not just having a go at the mindset but more importantly trying to point out in a simple to follow path for anyone thats interested "WHY" such a mindset is now in dominance , so in no way can any fanatic claim he's taking sides or having a go or any of the cheap lunatic reactions to any one usually daring to discuss such flammable subject matter

I basically disagree with your assessment here Kapis. But I must say that I am glad to see what a honorable gentlemen you have become allowing me to simply disagree with your worldview and perceptions.


then corelate them with facts then if facts not available to back up said belief or accusation , then put forth a treatise or essay giving reasons for the said belief that will allow other readers to SEE where the belief seeds from and grows its roots , as in the rationalised study of the accused or the projected prejudiced imagination of the accuser



… those who have chaos inside themselves, prefer a climate of chaos, because they don’t stand out as much…
-Michael Tsarion


Who are "those" who have chaos inside themselves, the accused or the accuser? Or maybe both as in a depencency for identity. An interesting thought that comes to mind if one recalls the situation between Michael Tsarion and Chris White.


“trash who has emerged from his fucking toilet” and “the only debate i’ll give this pathetic specimen is with my fist”
-Michael Tsarion

Or that situation between Michael Tsarion and Alan Watt which opens up another can of worms.


Michael Tsarion was telling you that we are screwed up, that we are the ones who need to clean ourselves in order to awake or to "enlighten". By using the likes of Sigmund Freud, Blavatsky and Crowley to tell us that we are psychologically dirty and sick. The same man who considers those who disagreed with him as “trash who has emerged from his fucking toilet”.
But according to him it is only Christianity that is the root of all evil?


He acted like a Kudlak as no sane mind can be so two-dimensional...and where-ever and when-ever there is someone painting truth in such a black and white fashion..he indeed will attract and deserve his *White* antithesis [google Krsnik]


Show me anyone that has Uri ? and even if you can, its no guarantee that they will have for the remainder of their future , thats what keep this life exciting and dangerous, the unpredictability of things in general, although it seems there is some form of judgemental/reward/punishment system that operates of its own accord in the psychic landscape of humanity , and as Jim the Morr did say, You surely Cannot petition that entity with prayer , you can quietly pray though and hope it answred , but if you petition , demand, then surely you may be well refused , but who can say for sure Uri, we are all here making up the picture as we go , and comparing pieces to try an fill in the gaps (;



Usually I would respond by saying that you are the maker and master of your limitations, but I can't really talk on behalf of others...or make claims for others because I need them to fit into my own worldview. I was not suggesting that one should try to command demons..*rofl* which explains what I actually meant by stating "to overcome" one's "demon's" as in being a independent self, taking responsibilty and fame only for ones own deeds...and all that "excitement" you talk about would not be compensation to me. I reckon there are plenty different kinds of entities that one can pray to if one choses to do so.


Sometimes the lord likes to do some skelping Uri, and moves in mysterious ways indeed , the best anyone can ever do, is not betray their selfs, that is, if theyve actually found their selfs yet , thaty seemds to be the hardest sound to tune into for the majority, because there are so many persuasive influences calling all day and all of the night


It is humans who do (or don't do) decide all things by themselves all day long, and some even during night. Concerning the betrayal of their "self" one must BE one "self"...the emphasis is on BEING...as there is no other way of BEING then to be "self". One can get distracted from being a fulfilled potential of a living breathing being though....and this is why a circle is called vicious, because life is a spiral, and "self" knows this by BEING anchored in SELF. So in conclusion to what you said, most people are not "themselves"...I could say I disagree, people simply are how they act, and that's where Yoga and Tantra disagrees due to different perspective altitudes...as Trantra treats unconscious mind as vital part of self.


Its a tough game , sometimes it cuts so deep , sometimes it gives so sweet , and we all want to be in control , and in following certain steps , it will allow that to happen, but one can never get over confident nor complacent, or one shall find themselves slipping , and in that slide is where the self knowledge kicker lies, the self that sees from behind its presenting self (that had hijacked those controls again , such a sleight of hand , a true genius )


I am sure I have mentioned this to you before, but I think you are "in control" of your own actions. What seems to confuse you is the need to be in control of situations or others. I tend to agree with you when you say that it is completely futile to try to control a situation by trying to control someone else or to use force to achieve the upper hand in any kind of situation.

Which reminded me of Kris...who thought to be able to do so...I considered that action as an illegitimate agression.

His "encrypted magic" to "slay the Vampire" seems to have caused some damage to himself.

I've noticed his weird comments over at Outlaws forum, dating from this summer, "psycho-tronic" traumata?

Spells who do not hit the *target* usually return back to it's source.

I forgive him that he tried to target me with his "encrypted embedded masonic spelling" back then in 2009
...you can tell him that, and to calm down...nobody is after him, he is solemnly haunted by what he has put out.

In the end it is as simple as that -- those who (just) want to discuss BEING (as an abstract idea to avoid being responsible for self) should first remove the splinter out of their own EYE ...but now I am repeating myself...

Well I am glad we all have learned from each other,
and I also want to thank you for your hospitality here on your forum Kapis.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 12:21

Regarding mtsar, i feel no need to defend his every word and work as its not my business to do so, i merely popped up out of my hutch because my name was attached to the commentarys
When there are many many scripts and comments available in public about someone, it is up to anyone who cares, to do their own opinionated research into that subject, if they be drawn by the subject, but always remembring something that is not stated anywhere in the education books , which is that often, when someone judges something, the judgement is subconsciously forcefully woven to fit their instinctive opinion of that material , and sometimes instinctive opinion can be correct and an epilogue from a future event, but mostly , instinctive opinion is a limitation of the subjects aquired knowledge which in itself may not be qualified to present fair judgement on the target .
A judgement of what is fair or not fair can be made by otherpersons examination of the said accusation and all the data presented with that accusation in direct comparison to the data available for the accused
And then also a judgement of the judgement of whats fair can be made by further other persons and so on and so forth, till finally one turns full circle to discover that when you instinctfully like something you tend to try harder to find reasons to justify that instinct and when you instintfully dislike something , the reverse is true

It may often just come down to sexy or not sexy, cool or not cool in this present age of visual excess and the projected ideals ruling over the actual evidence confronting one, ie the touch up magazine image phenomena which is a representation of how exactly people think today or have their thinking done for them , they are not interested in whats actually there, only in what isnt actually there and they are happy to make themselves look like showroom plasticised dummies and actually do their utmost to present what isnt really there under the guise of what is there , masks are all the vogue today like never before

Its just a case of choosing your masque now, no justification necessary nor even requested by most.

On tsarion , if i had a child, and i had to choose one "public figure" to expose that childs fragile eggshell mind too for an education outside the prescribed societal conditioned box, (outside of my own and its mothers) , i would choose tsarion , and in a way that displays my true instinct on tsarion , that he is a man of great dignity and honour (behind all the public scratchings) not to mention a scope of communicatable instant knowledge that few can muster claim to be an equal off , (but i bear in mind that wisdom is measured in more cups that one, and he has shown more too)

In essence , rudolph steiner paved the way in alternative education and im glad to say there are steiner centres available in the uk, albeit i was not formed in one, instead being conditioned with the standard scottish freakshow, but woaH, that was an education in itself which probably ruined my ideal potential , but i try to crawl back out of my own wreckage and am making good repairs enroute (:



the emphasis is on BEING...as there is no other way of BEING then to be "self". One can get distracted from being a fulfilled potential of a living breathing being though....and this is why a circle is called vicious, because life is a spiral, and "self" knows this by BEING anchored in SELF. So in conclusion to what you said, most people are not "themselves"...I could say I disagree, people simply are how they act, and that's where Yoga and Tantra disagrees due to different perspective altitudes...as Trantra treats unconscious mind as vital part of self.
This is a good point uri, very debatable , about what actually constitutes the del, i tend to agree with what u say that whatever they do or act is their self , thats all thats there, or thats all theyve developed , i suppose there are 2 ways of looking at it, whats there, and what could be there , reality and ideals , back to the magazine image i guess
Its a vicious circle for sure (;
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  Sputnik on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 13:48

Kapis wrote:Regarding mtsar, i feel no need to defend his every word and work as its not my business to do so, i merely popped up out of my hutch because my name was attached to the commentarys
When there are many many scripts and comments available in public about someone, it is up to anyone who cares, to do their own opinionated research into that subject, if they be drawn by the subject, but always remembring something that is not stated anywhere in the education books , which is that often, when someone judges something, the judgement is subconsciously forcefully woven to fit their instinctive opinion of that material , and sometimes instinctive opinion can be correct and an epilogue from a future event, but mostly , instinctive opinion is a limitation of the subjects aquired knowledge which in itself may not be qualified to present fair judgement on the target .

How much you have changed since the time when you enacted your force and opinions at the Mtsar forum.
From Inquisitor to Diplomat Smile The point is not to re-heat some old soup, the point is that one may tell lies to others, yet will never be able to lie to himself. What one will admit in public is another topic altogether. The tactics of 'plausible deniability' typical for masonry is no new trick. I guess the Jesuits are better off in the sence that they leave less traces behind.

Kapis wrote:A judgement of what is fair or not fair can be made by other persons examination of the said accusation and all the data presented with that accusation in direct comparison to the data available for the accused
And then also a judgement of the judgement of whats fair can be made by further other persons and so on and so forth, till finally one turns full circle to discover that when you instinctfully like something you tend to try harder to find reasons to justify that instinct and when you instintfully dislike something , the reverse is true

Hmm, all I can say is don't judge others then, lest you will be next? Judgement and standing up for oneself should not be confused here, as was done back at the Mtsar forum. Nothing anyone of us can do about it today. But to come back to the Tsarions qoute that mentioned "chaos"....did it not occure within him before it shaped his world? As to the cause I can only speculate and I am not the type who likes to do that.

Kapis wrote:It may often just come down to sexy or not sexy, cool or not cool in this present age of visual excess and the projected ideals ruling over the actual evidence confronting one, ie the touch up magazine image phenomena which is a representation of how exactly people think today or have their thinking done for them , they are not interested in whats actually there, only in what isnt actually there and they are happy to make themselves look like showroom plasticised dummies and actually do their utmost to present what isnt really there under the guise of what is there , masks are all the vogue today like never before

If it is about "image of attraction" alone I wonder why it's being sold as truth for the enlightened. For some truth may has become a commodity...but what do I know about that? Nothing.

Kapis wrote:Its just a case of choosing your masque now, no justification necessary nor even requested by most.

Has humanity asked to be deceived because people have not "requested" that truth be told to them? Very unlikely. To be inexperienced does not prevent the individual to err, but the success of leading others to failiure and their own demise does not redeem the trickster.

Kapis wrote:On tsarion , if i had a child, and i had to choose one "public figure" to expose that childs fragile eggshell mind too for an education outside the prescribed societal conditioned box, (outside of my own and its mothers) , i would choose tsarion , and in a way that displays my true instinct on tsarion , that he is a man of great dignity and honour (behind all the public scratchings) not to mention a scope of communicatable instant knowledge that few can muster claim to be an equal off , (but i bear in mind that wisdom is measured in more cups that one, and he has shown more too)

He has lost a lot of friends due to his public demeanor, but he can be glad to have you as a friend. And it's not yet the end of all days, hence plenty of opportunity for Tsarion to do justice to your praise for him.

Kapis wrote:In essence , rudolph steiner paved the way in alternative education and im glad to say there are steiner centres available in the uk, albeit i was not formed in one, instead being conditioned with the standard scottish freakshow, but woaH, that was an education in itself which probably ruined my ideal potential , but i try to crawl back out of my own wreckage and am making good repairs enroute (:

I don't like Rudolph Steiner at all, or any other theosophist. A racist with a really twisted mind not fit to educate children.
Steiner’s undoubtedly racist views remain a problem today. It can’t be dismissed by simply saying that Steiner was a child of his times. But we've had this discussion before....one day you will understand my position on this subect.


Kapis wrote:This is a good point uri, very debatable , about what actually constitutes the del, i tend to agree with what u say that whatever they do or act is their self , thats all thats there, or thats all theyve developed , i suppose there are 2 ways of looking at it, whats there, and what could be there , reality and ideals , back to the magazine image i guess
Its a vicious circle for sure (;

Anything one can physically perceive in our world with the eyes is equal to self...
[I am talking about sentient beings not things or items]

as it exists on the same bandwidth of universe.

One cannot lie to oneself...without anihilating his self.

I can't say it in a more profound way than this, but I hope it was received correctly this time Smile


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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Mon 24 Sep 2012, 19:39

Tsarion was always a bit...curt...in many of his responses. But I liked that about him.

My biggest critique of Tsarion is the very fact that he shut down his forum...for whatever reason.
As there is no reason that is justified in my opinion.
If he truly believed in the work he was doing and promoting, then the forum and all its ugliness was the perfect expression of that work.
He truly invalidated himself by shutting it down.
Just my opinion.
And now he operates the only one member, one poster forum in existence that I am aware of. Quite strange.

And in its final weeks of it being up did a massive censoring of other's posts that did not jive with what he felt was relevant...even though those posts did not violate any known rules regarding what was acceptable or not acceptable.
Truly another invalidation of himself.

The moment Tsarion's work was challenged...he ran like a little bitch.
Truly...weak in the face of adversity.
Maybe he got scared off when people began finding out he came from and had money and where his multiple residences were located.
Perhaps he feared someone would learn of his real name.

Here is a recent quote of his forum...
...he who keeps back the truth, or withholds it from men,
from motives of expediency, is either a coward or a criminal,
or both - Prof. Max Muller



Here someone asks Tsarion a good question...


...and I totally disagree with Tsarion's answer.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Tue 25 Sep 2012, 01:38

Quicksilvers comments have aroused a need to comment more on mtsar to fill in some gaps on me


My biggest critique of Tsarion is the very fact that he shut down his forum...for whatever reason.
As there is no reason that is justified in my opinion.

I feel the same way about the ambush forum closure and have commented before on it , there was a lot of superb comments put on that forum by many different flavours of people , and that was taken away without so much as a whisper to anyone , even although , strictly speaking, whoever runs a forum has the right to close its doors without question, by doing so, it opens up a big hole in their "trust and respect" quota


And in its final weeks of it being up did a massive censoring of other's posts that did not jive with what he felt was relevant...even though those posts did not violate any known rules regarding what was acceptable or not acceptable.
I remember this as well , all true events


The moment Tsarion's work was challenged...he ran like a little bitch.
Truly...weak in the face of adversity.
It unfortunately looks that way in that particular period , ive never understood why a man with so much info at the tip of his hat , seemed to get upset so easily on his forum, off course there must be reasons for that , which could range from things we (the public ) are not aware of , to simple flaws or undeveloped areas in progressive communicative character (progressive being a debateable term for sure )
Ive always thought myself that its in live unscripted debate that one learns most about ones self especially in the management of the emotional fluid and the ego arousal
I believe it would be tremendously enlightening if tsar was pitted against some of his opposers in a real livetime debate with a controlling referee regarding timescale for replys etc
He took a step towards this in public with those fellow chats discussions re the recent live events , but that was pretty safe and friendly and didnt have scope to get into major disagreement areas


Maybe he got scared off when people began finding out he came from and had money and where his multiple residences were located.
Perhaps he feared someone would learn of his real name.
All possible, i think it could be scary when people you dont know are prying into your life and exposing private things about you that you didnt really want people to know or debate about , but the problem is, and tsar maybe didnt fully realise it until these things began clawing at him, as soon as you go public with strong opinions, you invite strong opinions to oppose your opinions... whether you like it or not, there is no choice, people will cut like a knife once your out in public , its always been that way, and actually much worse in the past, which is why its acually a very brave thing to do , especially in these societal forbidden areas of inquest , but we all know that


With all that in mind above, the reason i stated my optimistic conclusion on tsar is because simply that is what i feel about him regardless of the events above, i dont think hes perfect , as i myself am not , hes a work in motion like most people , i dont agree with everything he says or has said, but i do recognise that he operates in areas of thought that i myself am compelled to inquire in like esoteric, philosophy ,psychology etc

Although i myself am a bit fanatical about facts figures truths , analysis etc , when it comes to judging another person, somehow it all boils down to an inarticulate feeling about them that is the dominant remainder judgement i have, sometimes in opposition to their recent behaviours and apparent intentions towards me , maybe my mythical higher self has the edge on me still , my ideal still beats my reality , it might be my own private kind of tarot card reading (:




...and I totally disagree with Tsarion's answer

If you get the time qsc, would b very interested to here your expansion on that at any time in the future if it takes your fancy to put it out
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Tue 25 Sep 2012, 11:39

Just had a brilliant insight from my own comment that applies to life in general
when it comes to judging another person, somehow it all boils down to an inarticulate feeling about them that is the dominant remainder judgement i have, sometimes in opposition to their recent behaviours and apparent intentions towards me

How else could a man continue relating with a woman ? ROFL Very Happy
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Tue 25 Sep 2012, 20:44

If you get the time qsc, would b very interested to here your expansion on that at any time in the future if it takes your fancy to put it out

I have many issues regarding Tsarion's attitude and his mystery school divination explanations.
I will attempt to enumerate them here as accurately and without exaggeration as possible.

Let me first point out that the moment anyone raised a mention or an inquiry into Tsarion's mystery school on the forum that they were immediately told it was inappropriate subject matter, not to be discussed on the forum openly and had to be addressed in private to him.

This was one of the typical dominating attitudes of Tsarion that violated the very mission statement and spirit of his forum for which we were participating.

It is a fact that he even went overboard in his censorship regarding protecting his mystery school cash cow by deleting some of my posts that were only talking about the subject of the tarot...and had nothing to do with his method or school. But my tarot posts were deleted because he felt, in his own warped mind, they were...to close to home for comfort...which they were not even close to being that.
So on that level, I regard Tsarion as a dickhead...pure and simple.

Tsarion attempted to come across as a self-professed expert in the divination arts while censoring others who attempted to inquire or elaborate on the matter...in a cult-leader-like fashion...and anything that did not agree with him and his method was pure rubbish attitude.

While I was waiting for Tsarion to come out with, in book form, his method on the arts I had made some inquiries. In regards to the Kabbalah, I wanted to know from him what would be some good books or sources to refer to in order to get good information on the Kabbalah seeing how his book had not been released and he was unsure about when it would come out. His answer to me was that there are no good books on Kabbalah and that they are all wrong and rubbish. Eh...that is quite a declaration when you consider the extensive subject of Kabbalah and are leaving but little option other than professing that your method is supreme, yet unsourced.
Give me a break dude...your ego is blocking the sun.

To this day those books have never been released...not even volume one.
http://taroscopes.com/taroscopes-series.html

And at one time it was advertised that if you joined the online mystery school that this set of books would be issued to you once they were released at no extra charge. That was over five years ago.

So without even addressing the details of Tsarion's method, I would state that the very forum that Tsarion set was not conducive to real learning of these subjects...when you consider what I just previously wrote above.

Now in the previous video, the interviewer asks Tsarion a very simple and direct question.
Tsarion does not directly answer it in the context of the question posed to him.
Tsarion is either extremely ignorant on the reality of this matter or is totally misrepresenting the truth on the matter...and lying.
It is one or the other.
But Tsarion's response would lead one to believe, in utter simplicity, that it is just all about one's inner demons or unclean aspects of the inner state in regard to the divination or tarot arts.

In a minor respect this is true, but overall that is utter bullshit.
I presently believe that Tsarion is outright lying.

I will further state that Tsarion states that only the Rider-Waite or Crowley tarot decks, or one of the many clones of these decks, are to be used. Because those of the Golden Dawn and Crowley had it most accurately. But then Tsarion goes on to tell you that you must alter aspects of each deck in order for them to be correct.
But by what authority does Tsarion know better than those of the Golden Dawn or the great magus Crowley to even suggest these changes in numbering or ordering of the cards? That remains just as much a mystery as his mystery school. But T-bone says it...so it must be the truth. No further elaboration needed.

Where is the evidence that the Tarot cards can be traced back to Egypt as given to Egypt by the Druids?
I have seen no such proof that the Tarot cards were possessed or given to anyone by the Druids. Much less being some more ancient science from Atlantis. But I have seen evidence it came from Egypt. But T-bone says it...so it must be true.

In the previous video, Tsarion claims a couple of times the divination arts are "protected"...but does not elaborate in any way as to what that means to the audience...yet states it with authority. You would think that any speaker would naturally elaborate on what that means...but T-bone doesn't, but instead attempts to use repetition of his fact to persuade.

I have come to suspect that Tsarion may have one or a combination of factors going on with him...

His ego is really big and there isn't enough room on the earth for anyone else other than him and his ego.
He has a screw loose. There is evidence to make this speculation probable.
He is an occultist ignorant of a huge universe surrounding the divination arts which he does not speak of nor admits to knowing about.
He is an occultist purposefully leading people down a dark path disguised as a path of self-realization and discovery.
He is possessed and influenced by entities that are purposefully leading people down a dark path disguises as a path of self-realization and discovery.

I will elaborate more on the divination arts and their connection with external entities and demons...and how their use may very well open doors and possibilities that one may be influenced by entities.

"And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, taught astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon."


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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  Sputnik on Tue 25 Sep 2012, 21:49

If Michael Tsarion has outstanding occult knowledge how come he has such difficulties to apply these beneficially to the real world? Or maybe he simply just isn't in tune with his surroundings to the degree that it is of little benefit to anyone else, let alone to himself.

One of my personal mottoes is effectiveness is the measure of all truth.

From personal knowledge I know that a mystery school is neither to be found "online" nor do they charge a monetary admission fee. I can't say much about Tsarion's 'mystery school' as I haven't had considered joining...but since there is no copyright on the term anyone can call their business whatever they like...and Tsarion can call himself a Druid, but I know he is not.

There is a very simple and effective way to find out...because if you are one chosen by the spirits you will enter one of the traditional mystery schools (not to be found in the yellow pages) without being charged a single penny. You can believe this, or not, that's up to you. All other I personally regard as Merchants. Beware of a blind bargain, because spiritual laws still apply no matter what the outcome!

Call me Old School, but these matters are non-negociable for me.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Wed 26 Sep 2012, 01:17

Cheers for the elaboration qsc , scathingly honest as always from your view
I will wait till you continue with the tarot entity connection from your viewpoint , which may stimulate something from me regarding that subject


From personal knowledge I know that a mystery school is neither to be found "online" nor do they charge a monetary admission fee
Uri - i find it hard to extract anything other than a suggestion you may have been attached to some form of spirit knowledge system from the above statement
If so, were there any form of divination techniques involved and if so , expand on such experience at your leisure
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Wed 26 Sep 2012, 22:15

Here is the earliest public connection of the tarot from europe to egypt exposed by a freemason, if anyone locates an earlier record, post it up

It was in the Age of Enlightenment in France that the Big Bang for the esoteric tarot happened, and when tarot began to be used for fortune-telling – even the tarot academics are happy to admit this. Antoine Court de Gébelin (ca. 1719-1784) was a freemason and a protestant pastor, and it was he who first wrote about the Book of Thoth [read: tarot cards]. According to him, tarot was invented in ancient Egypt and it contained, quite simply, the wisdom of the world. He published his theories in the massive encyclopedia, Le Monde Primitif (1777-1796). The 8th volume (1781) contains the seminal essays: Du Jeu des Tarots written by Court de Gébelin himself, and Recherches sur les Tarots, et sur la Divination par les Cartes des Tarots by his friend Comte de Mellet (Louis Raphaël Lucrèce de Fayolle, 1727-1804). Here, for the first time, the relationship between tarot and the kabbalistic Tree of Life were published. The age was ripe for secret societies, and tarot made its way into the occult world. It was gladly received.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Wed 26 Sep 2012, 22:21

Here is a rare Lecture manuscript on the Tarot from circa 1942 given by Lady Frieda Harris , the artist who helped design with crowley the thoth deck , particular attention gets peaked by her comments that tarot is not intended for divination
Lecture for the Sesame Club

“Contrary to everybody’s impression, the Tarot Cards were not intended for the purposes of divination. They are a Map of the Universe and they might quite easily be compared with the symbols of mathematics. Regarded as such they represent a convenient means of stating cosmic problems, such as the grouping and regrouping of forces, elements and so on, which have in the last accounted for the course taken by history of the universe and they will probably continue to shape it in the future.

Like mathematics too that admit of numerous different interpretations and just as there have been different forms of mathematical thinking, so the designs used for the Tarot Cards have differed greatly through the ages. In fact the difference between Euclid and Einstein are not greater than the differences between any two sets of Tarot Cards. These packs of Tarot cards have been described as the Tarot of the Egyptians and the Bohemians, in other words the Gypsies.

Now the Tarot Cards that I have seen seem to represent the thought of the period in which they were designed. The 17th and 18th Century have got a definite stamp of the Baroque and are decorated with scrolls and curves. Mantegna has done 5 or 6 which I saw at the British Museum – they are classical, restrained and dignified pictures of goddesses. The earlier and more primitive ones are much simpler and they state the symbol coarsely but frankly; some of them are quite gay and childish, but the meaning is clear. I have made an effort in this present pack to embody this current mode of the century. Therefore I have tried to introduce among the cards the element of Time. In nearly all the designs, the straight lines of the former cards – such as the check patterns, the rays of the sun, the chart of the Universe and the stars – are expressed in a curve. I hope to convey the idea of movement. ‘Death’ in Trumps has to suggest the idea of re-incarnation, as opposed to putrefaction, he is weaving with his scythe a geometrical web of new forms. One must remember in looking at these cards, that they are to convey to the mind the continual play of opposites. The conception was that the Earth is the home of two opposites forces – the active and the passive. This really means that you can look at any of the pictures, thinking in what I may describe as four dimensions. This requires great concentration and is an incentive to meditation. At this moment of great material activity, it is necessary for us to make the utmost effort all day to continue to exist. It may be that we may find relief and balance in passive contemplation of the cards, during which we may learn to understand and submit to the cosmic laws of God. Thus taking the four suits which represent the four elements, earth, air, fire and water we begin thinking like this.

The Wands stand for Fire and they express its contradictory nature, which is at once destructive, purifying, creative and the source of all magical power. In this pack there are three degrees, the Wand of Mercury or the Chief Adept Wand, the Lotus Wand and the Phoenix Wand. Water, which is the second suit is a contradictory one to Fire. It stands for the negative side of the bounties which may be enjoyed; it is the feminine element, its reflective and receptive powers typifying the element of Woman as opposed to the generative power of the Man. It also contains the opposite, though it typifies compassionate, receptive soothing ideas its plenty is an over-copious endowment which destroys effort and it leads to a luxurious-ness in which creative self-consciousness is lost. The Ace shows the Cup of the Holy Grail, where personal individuality is completely lost in ecstasy. Air is represented by the suit of Swords. Air stands for the Intellect and as a sword may be wielded by any hand; Air, the intellect is impersonal, and is at the service of any force, good or evil. The intellect divorced from consciousness is not concerned to distinguish between good and evil.

We can see in the Ace the intellect used to symbolise the highest form of scintillating intellect. The No2 of Swords still shows that the intellect coupled with beauty is a controlled force, but after that we are clearly shown, by the old tradition, a picture of destructive intelligence. The fourth suit is the Discs. They represent passive receptivity, also putrefaction with its subsequent generation. Here again we can get the best aspect in the Ace of Discs and from that right up through the numbers, we see a deterioration of constant elaboration of material until we reach the 10, in which we see the Disc becomes a massive stodgy pile of coins.

With regard to the Court cards in all these suits, the Knight represents the Father, the Queen the Mother, the Prince and Princesses the children, and they represent the uniting of 2 elements and the subsequent generation of a third different element. The Princes may have been introduced by the Adepts as the generation of the heat and electricity which takes place at the birth of the new element and the return of the original ardour. Before coming to the Trumps, I would like to speak of the tradition that the Commedia dell’Arte originated in the Tarot. The suggestion is that Harlequin is to be found in the Trump card called ‘Justice’, its name now changed to ‘Adjustment’ and is the French meaning of La Justesse. This Justice holds a sword and stands tip toe. The Balances are suspended from her headdress and contain the bubble of Illusion or Maya.

Now in the Commedia dell’Arte the Harlequin holds a Wand (it may have been a sword) and adjusts, judges or resolves every incident in the comedy. His diamond check costume may have been taken from the four points of the diamond on the Tarot card and would typify, I suppose, the four elements which are in his command. The first Trump, the Fool, is supposed to be the Pierrot of the Commedia dell’Arte, and I can well imagine his drifting gaily, or dismally, through all literature, unconscious or innocently right. When I was watching a Punch and Judy show the other day the Puppets made me think of the Tarot cards, and as a butterfly floated across the Stage, I discovered the symbol which is in the old card, and it seems patent that these cards were the source of many fairy stories and recognisable in ancient and modern Literature.

There is some tradition about the way these cards are numbered, but I really cannot go into that, because in different ages they have been numbered quite differently. The Position of the Emperor used to be No17 and now he has been reinstated in his proper place as No4. The vale of the Trump cards must be fixed according to the circumstances of their position. This is clearly shown in the Trump card of the Sun, because the strength and nature of the Sun’s influence depend upon its position in regard to the earth. Once more to employ mathematical analogy, the fixing of their value is something like that of the symbol ‘Pi’ which is determined by the use to which it is put.

It would need much more time, and we should be standing here all day long and be bored, to give an adequate description of the Tarot cards. They really must be loved and studied, for each person a new meaning is to be discovered which helps him to solve his own problems and trains him in the art of meditation and disciplined thought. In this pursuit of self-study he will be emulating Shakespeare’s Prospero “Neglecting worldly ends, all dedicated to closeness, and the bettering of my mind”, and gaining Prospero’s reward – “by my prescience

I find my zenith doth depend upon
A most auspicious star, whose influence
If now I court not but omit, my fortunes
Will forever after droop”“


She also did a Lecture for the Tomorrow club, 1945, which seems to b removed from web at present unless uri can locate the german version

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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Wed 26 Sep 2012, 22:51

Back to divination and commentary on the analysis of divination through tarot which for sure is where the diviner is attempting contact with spiritual entities


From a psychological standpoint, in divination we are trying to arrange for a synchronistic event, a breakthrough of the archetypal world into the everyday world of time and place. Such a breakthrough will be more likely if several psychological preconditions are satisfied. First, the matter of the divination should be important, for a synchronistic event is more likely if there is a high charge of psychic energy, that is, more likely in an emotion-laden, tension-charged situation. Second, one or more archetypes of the collective unconscious should be activated, since in this way a constellated archetype becomes luminous and shines through, glowing with meaning. Thus the archetypal realm may break through into consciousness and physical reality simultaneously. As Albertus Magnus (1193-1290) explained, an Excessus Affectus (Excess of Feeling) is a prerequisite to any kind of magic. This intensification can be accomplished by a number of means, including repetition (hence the use of the question as a mantra) and the manipulation of physical objects coordinated with the archetypal realm (hence, the contemplation of the spread as a mandala); a mandala creates an intersection between the eternal and temporal realms. Third, the light of ego consciousness must be turned down, since it subtracts from the luminosity of the archetypes; the discursive ego must be silent, to give the archetypes (as autonomous spirits) an opportunity to speak. Once the breakthrough occurs, synchronistic events of all sort may take place, in the physical environment as well as in the cards. However, the "window to eternity" stays open for only a brief time, after which the ordinary temporal order resumes. (von Franz 157, 185-6, 200, 223, 225-7, 246, 262)

From a religious standpoint, we are in effect requesting an audience with the Gods. We are asking that They give us advice on a problem, reveal Their Will, or give us a glimpse into the future. It should be apparent that we should not present the Gods with trivial or frivolous questions. Further, we should not resort to divination before we have availed ourselves of more mundane means of problem solving. "Hermes will help you to get your wagon unstuck, but only if you push on it," as an old proverb says. So we should have a serious concern to present to the Gods and we should show Them we are sincere in our petition. One way to do this is to conduct the divination as a sacred ritual including prayers, vows and offerings to the Gods. Finally, the supplicant should submit himself to the Will and advice of the Gods.

Accepting the Will of the Gods is not the same, however, as a passive fatalism. A divination reveals Their Will as it is at a given moment of time. The future is not fixed, for Gods may change Their minds, and sometimes a supplicant can convince Them to do so. Also, a supplicant may enlist a God to work in his favor and intercede on his behalf with other Gods. Further, oracles are often conditional: "if you do this, such and such will happen," so the choice remains with us. Even when the Gods' minds are made up and they cannot be swayed, we are free to choose how we will raft the river of fate.

"The Master Speaks But Once"

We consider the advisability of repeating a Tarot reading to test its "reliability." The ancient oracles (and traditional usage of dice oracles etc.) were interpreted as petitions to the Gods for guidance, and were generally accompanied by prayers, vows, sacrifices etc. Under such conditions the God can easily determine the outcome of a cast without violating the laws of statistical probability, since the cast is a singular event. Impious moderners can imagine "testing" the God, by repeated casts, but as Jung says in his forward to the Wilhelm-Baynes translation of the I Ching (p. xxix), "To ask the same question a second time would have been tactless and so I did not do it: `the master speaks but once.'" Naturally, materialists will consider his attitude unscientific, and so it is - intentionally so. As Jung says, "The heavy-handed pedagogic approach that attempts to fit irrational phenomena into a preconceived rational pattern is anathema to me."
If we doubt the God and test the oracle, we deserve what we will likely get: the results predicted by chance. For to ask the very same question of the Gods a second time, merely for the sake of repetition, and not for greater insight or some other genuine need, is to try the Gods' patience. To perform a divination under "controlled conditions," without proper ritual and mental attitude, is sacrilegious. Is it any wonder that under such circumstances the Gods give misleading answers or no answers at all?

From a psychological standpoint, there is no such thing as repeating a divination, since each reading is unique. At very least the "psychic charge" decreases with repetition, which decreases the likelihood of a synchronistic event. Divination accesses "psychological probability," the expected evolution ("rolling out") of archetypal processes, which is completely different from the statistical probability of the sciences. Divination requires an unconscious "cut," isolating the qualitative character of a moment in its physical and psychic wholeness, whereas science requires a conscious "cut," which isolates a phenomenon from the rest of existence. (von Franz 44, 198-9, 223-4)

Importance of Ritual

I hope the foregoing has made clear the important role that ritual plays in divination. The exact form of the ritual is not so important as the sincerity with which it's conducted, and different magical and religious traditions will have their own methods; the divination ritual that follows has a Hellenic orientation. Some readers will be put off by its complexity. Certainly it is not necessary to include every aspect of it in every reading; the substance of the ritual should be suited to importance of the divination. However, before adopting a very casual approach to divination, I would remind the reader that in ancient times (before "the decline of the oracles"), supplicants would often travel many miles by foot to visit an oracular shrine, where they would make expensive sacrifices and significant vows before requesting an oracle. In deciding how much effort to put into a divination, you should ask yourself, "How badly do I want to know?"
2. Suggested Divination Ritual (Ritus Divinationis)

This divination ritual derives from a number of sources, including ancient divination practices, the theoretical discussions in von Franz' Number and Time, and practical suggestions in Gad's Tarot and Individuation (349-53), Blofeld's I Ching (ch. 4), Renee's Tarot Spells (241-4), Knight's Tarot and Magic (126-Cool and "Book T," the Golden Dawn Tarot manuscripts (Regardie IX.29-31, 33-4, 46-7; Wang 103-108, 126), among others.
i. The Consecration (Consecratio)

The Divination Area (Templum Divinationis)

The divination should be performed in sacred space, which may be permanently consecrated (e.g. a temple or shrine) or established pro tempore for the purpose of a divination. Furthermore, the area should be clean and uncluttered, with subdued lighting and free of distractions. Pick a time and place so that the divination will not be interrupted; the presence of others beyond the reader and querent will probably interfere.
Within the sacred area is the Focus (Latin, altar hearth), the table upon which the divination is performed. Place on the Focus the following: the Deck in its cover or container, the spread cloth (if used), censer, candles and any other ritual instruments (e.g. wand or athame).

The Deck (Triumphi & Chartae)

The Tarot deck should be consecrated as a tool (see, for example, my Lesser and Greater Tool Consecrations); thereafter it should be treated with respect, as would any sacred object (e.g. an athame or wand). It is often valuable to establish a bond with the deck by keeping it with you for at least a full day after consecration. It does not need to be consecrated more than once.
It is traditional to keep a Tarot deck wrapped in black silk, since black is a neutral color and keeps out extraneous influences. Or you may choose to keep it wrapped in some other clean cloth or to house it in a clean, attractive container that is not used for anything else. The point is to treat the deck with respect.

ij. The Preparation (Preparatio)

Formulating the Question (Descriptio Quaestionis)

The first and most important step in the divination is to formulate the question or request. Try to get to the essence of the matter; you are seeking the advice of the Gods, so ask what you really need to know. It is often worthwhile to formulate the problem in consultation with other people who can provide additional perspectives (e.g. the querent may do it in consultation with the reader).
Here are some general guidelines. Avoid either-or questions or questions about a future event at a specific time; the answer to such a question may be accurate but irrelevant. Better questions are "What will be the result of doing ...?" or "How may ... be accomplished?" Often the most useful request is "Comment upon ...," since it invites the God to offer the most relevant advice and doesn't force the response into a particular form. In any case, although formulating the question is important for your own clarification, you must expect the Gods to respond to what you need to know, even if it is not what you asked. Be open to Their gifts.

The question should be brief, so that it can be held in the mind easily; further, it is helpful, though by no means necessary, if it can be expressed metrically (so that it can serve as a sort of mantra). Write the question down so that it can be kept in sight.

Purification (Purificatio)

In preparation for divination it is helpful to fast for seven hours, or at least to abstain from heavy food. You may also want to deprive yourself of sleep the day before; this facilitates entering a liminal state in which your conscious mind is less likely to block the synchronistic event. Immediately before divination, take a lustral bath during which you contemplate the question. (If a bath is infeasible, at least wash your hands.) Don ceremonial robes for the divination itself. Do a preliminary grounding and centering.
iij. The Entry to Sacred Space (Introitus ad Templum)

If you do not have a permanent, consecrated ritual area, then create sacred space by casting a circle in your usual way. When you enter sacred space, leave outside all anger and resentment, love and hate, hope and fear, and all strong emotions, for they will interfere with the divination.
iv. The Opening Prayer (Preces)

Call upon the Gods, make an offering to Them, and pray that They reveal to you what you need to know regarding the question, which you should ask as previously formulated. Visualize the incense carrying your prayer and question up to the Heavens. Here is an example prayer:
We call You, Lord Apollo, Pythian,
the Ruler of the Delphic Oracle,
or by whatever name You would prefer.
Attend us and accept these offerings.
(pour libation, burn incense, etc.)
Be kind to us and send us lucid signs;
reveal the Will of Heaven so we may comply.
The problem that we bring to You is this:
(state the question as formulated)
Be kind to us, Apollo, Lord of Light.
In wisdom may we live by Your advice.
If a libation of Holy Water is poured, both reader and querent may also drink some of it, from a silver vessel, for inner purification. Continue to hold the question in your mind.
v. The Charging (Potestatem Facere)

First purify the deck. Hold it horizontally in your dominant hand and pass it to the right through the incense smoke while reciting your question. Next empower the deck. Hold it in your left hand (your right, if you are left-handed), and with your dominant hand, possibly holding a magical tool, make an invoking pentagram (top to lower left) over it. Then charge it while saying,
Apollo, Lord of Prophecy, I call!
The Art of Secret Wisdom is Your realm,
and therefore I request You place Your hand
upon these consecrated Cards of Art,
so I may better know the Hidden Truth,
and praise the vision of Your Shining Light.
You should pay careful attention to everything that happens from now on during the reading, not only with the cards but also in the surroundings. You are arranging for a synchronistic event to take place, which may manifest, both physically and psychically, in many ways. In addition to physical phenomena, you should note ideas, images, emotions, etc. that may enter your mind. This is especially true after the Cut, which is intended to trigger the synchronistic event.
vi. The Shuffle (Miscere)

Shuffle the cards in any way that's convenient. While you are shuffling, keep the question clearly in mind, and try to keep your mind clear of everything else. Stop shuffling when it feels right to do so.
Since medieval times it has been considered very significant if a card falls out of the deck during shuffling. "What falls, comes" (Quod cadit, venit). Such a card must be interpreted as defining the atmosphere of the entire divination. It should be shuffled back into the deck, and if it appears in the spread it should be considered especially significant. (Hamaker-Zondag, Tarot as a Way of Life, p. 105)

vij. The Cut (Secare)

The moment of the cut is the most crucial part of the divination, since it is the act that isolates the qualitative instant, which will be explicated in the spread. (In Latin, the momentum is simultaneously the featherweight that tips the scales, the impulse, the creative cause, the decisive change, and the instant in time.) Therefore, in preparation for the cut, you should quiet your mind, clear it of all thoughts and desires, and open yourself to a sign from the Gods.
When the moment feels right, cut the deck. The cut should be made with the left hand if you are right-handed and with the right if you are left-handed. The cut should be clean and decisive.

If you make a "false cut" (drop one or more cards), then replace them in the deck and reshuffle before cutting again. Another false cut indicates that this is an inauspicious time for divination. (The Golden Dawn manuscripts suggest that an important divination be delayed for at least twelve hours if a false cut occurs.)

viij. The Spread (Ducere)

Before spreading the cards, visualize in your mind the spread you will use, and think about the meaning of locations in the spread. Meditate on the spread as a mandala, that is, as a cosmological map of the archetypal realm. To this end, it is helpful if the Focus is covered with a cloth marked with the spread.
Place the cards face down in the spread in the prescribed order. (They are placed face down to prevent the reader's or querent's mental reaction to earlier cards from influencing the choice of later ones.) Then turn them all face up, again in the prescribed order, before beginning the interpretation. In this way you will able to see all the relationships among the cards without undue bias from the earlier cards.

ix. The Interpretation (Interpretatio)

Intuition is much more important than analysis for interpreting the cards. This intuition is built in part on prior analysis: study of the commentaries on the cards, meditation on their images and associated myths, and practice reading with the deck. However, the reading is a unique event in time and space, and so your intuition should also be used to incorporate the particulars of the reading into your interpretation (i.e., consider the circumstances of the reading, the people involved, etc.). Typically, some parts of the reading will have meaning only to the individual querent or reader. Don't be "bound by the book" (i.e. my commentaries).
If some aspects of the reading are unclear, it is possible to do a secondary reading. For example, if the problem is at a particular location in the spread, one to three additional cards may be dealt to that location in an attempt to clarify the corresponding aspect. Place them above the spread if the ambiguity is more pervasive. If the entire reading suggests another question or problem, then a complete additional reading can be performed, by addressing the new problem to the God, reshuffling the deck and respreading the cards.

The original spread, its interpretation, and any secondary spreads and their interpretations should all be recorded in writing to facilitate follow-up interpretation or reinterpretation. Some aspects of the reading may become clearer as events unfold.

x. The Closing Prayer (Gratiae)

When your divination is complete, offer thanks to the Gods for Their guidance. Burn incense, pour libation or make other offerings. Here is a typical prayer:
Apollo, gracious Lord of Oracles,
receive these offerings for all Your gifts,
and for the guidance You have granted me.
I gladly give You many heartfelt thanks,
for I am grateful for Your watchful care.
Then rewrap the cards, extinguish the candles, etc., and retire from sacred space.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Thu 27 Sep 2012, 09:54



Entities and the tarot???!!! What...what...what...rubbish...what...trash!!!
These subjects are sacred and protected...not meant for the mere surface speculations from bottom feeders like yourselves!!!
My work...my method...my work...indicates no such thing is to even be discussed!!!
If you want your miniscule minds to even begin to wrap themselves around such knowledge then it can only be done one way...
...send me $555, join the mystery school, see what it is really about and keep your pie hole shut about it.

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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Thu 27 Sep 2012, 11:24

Here is some light reading Kapis...woorthy to give this one a scan as we continue on the "entity" subject.
I highly recommend the snippets of information on pages 155-160, 182-188.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13538388/The-Key-of-The-Abyss

I will state here and now that I believe the "real" tarot is not possessed by anyone outside the most elite Jewish circles.
What everyone else has is an incomplete version that is designed to sequester energy of the user to that same most elite Jewish circle.
So when you use it...you empower them...through quantum physics or...magick...like a good goy toy.
Just like you can't use Windows without a license...but the Windows Home Version one may use is not the same as Windows Business or the Deluxe Edition...for example.
And the real or any other tarot is not something I would want to fool around with should I wish to remain sanitized from entity involvement.

It is remarkable that considering all of Tsarion's many lectures, talks, radio shows and writings...other than mentioning Archons...he does not go into entities regarding the practice of divination or the Western Magickal Tradition. How could you possibly miss it?
He mentions the Holy Guardian Angel but never elaborates for the ninety nine percent of the audience that doesn't know what that is...which I believe is satanic...but that is another debate which I will never have with T-bone.
I also remember he deleted my critical posts of the channeled Elizabeth Claire Prophet materials.
What gives T-bone?



Oh, him again, quicksilver with his dubious connections...
...where is that delete button again??? Get back to me when you have something I clearly approve of...while I rattle on about thinking for yourself and selfhood. The forum is open...no wait it's closed...open...closed...closed, yup...just me posting to you...the way it should have always been...for accuracy's sake. Buy my new book.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Thu 27 Sep 2012, 22:15

The origin of witchcraft is extrateresstrial or extra dimensional, quite interesting about the innerworld entities being capable of controlling nature maybe even through subconscious mind control influencing the weather(using mass human will by proxy) and the qliphoth seems to seed much of this entity knowledge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qliphoth

also page 14 says it nicely for me on nature of the ritual

So its possible that there exists an original tarot designed by extra-dimensional intelligences which represent and allow access too the spectrum of influential dimensional forces that abide in the psychic etheral world but which interface and directly influence the physical world, each card being a potential gateway / interface with specific entitys to the attuned human user
The attuned human user can use that tarot tool to communicate with various entities for predictive outcomes , anticipations , past hidden wisdom access etc, but everything comes with a price, the price being, that these accessed forces begin to put down homes in the psyche of the user , just like any invited immigrant would do
These forces are neither good nor evil, they just have a particular vein of expression and attribute , it is through their eventual influenced expression in the human that good or evil acts may occur, good or evil being a very debateable definition to different humans

Ive personally known a tarot card reader/clairvoyant back in 99 and she was literaly a persona with 2 faces , at times she would just go into a dark place and could not communicate with people during that time

I will state here and now that I believe the "real" tarot is not possessed by anyone outside the most elite Jewish circles.
What everyone else has is an incomplete version that is designed to sequester energy of the user to that same most elite Jewish circle.
So when you use it...you empower them...through quantum physics or...magick...like a good goy toy.

An interesting belief qsc, sort of like a matrix battery charger , anything is certainly possible in the deepest black arts ,how few can talk with any authority on such unknowns ?
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Thu 27 Sep 2012, 22:31

Yeah , you would think that david ike did a great job in paving the way for no-hassle entity discussion , because he did the lizard thing about 20 years back on national tv , all credit to ike for doing so , whatever he took in south america, it was a helluva trip thats for sure , and hes doing great these days, coming out with some decent interpretations / speculations about the hidden world of control and making a very comfortable living from that as well

All salutations to thee mr Ike
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Thu 27 Sep 2012, 23:31

I first read of entities back in '84 from a Christian bookstore that had some very obscure titles warning of the occult.
One book described the attachment of a reptilian shadow entity to the second chakra of a human.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 00:10

One book described the attachment of a reptilian shadow entity to the second chakra of a human.
i think i got visited by that one , just cant stop thinkin about sex Twisted Evil
Sometimes when in the presence of some people , i get the feeling theres an alien scheming presence lurking, then i leave them and its still there Very Happy


But seriously , i do believe that there are influential energies that do indeed energetically attach to humans and infect their impressions and affect their expressions, creative and destructive
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  seraphim on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 07:09

My two cents.....
My gut impression of Tsarion is that what he has to say is quite inspirational. Nowadays it's easy to give up on life, especially on oneself and some of the things he presents, like taroscopes and charts is quite helpful, besides his speeches which have power in them. As for for the tarot and mystery school to me that certainly is a step ahead. I would never really get into that because I don't know Myself.
I believe that people can harm themselves with the tarot because we are vulnerable and don't know thyself. In a way it's a two edged sword, if you tell a person an entity will get you with the tarot, then that will scare folks away from that art. And then it will really be a lost treasure. And folks won't be able to help themselves and get ahead of the so called game.
Then there are so many folks, and like I said I'm in the same boat, who can easily go down the wrong road if they do tarot. So I think Tsarion spoke wisely in the tarot interview. Can you imagine a person of today, who is already influenced by who knows what, losing themselves even more. (I wouldn't call a person a monster, like Tsarion may but I understand why he says that. It's true what he says and how one turns into that, besides doesn't human translate as monster.) And souls can easily be lost. (Just think who would be turning humans into monsters, not physically (yet?!) but mentally). I think of tarot as opening doors inside as well as outside, so who knows what the possibilities are.
Since we are easily controlled, for me I would just be very careful. It could be very overwhelming out there.
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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 17:42

if you tell a person an entity will get you with the tarot

Do you really know anything in detail about the tarot and its connection to the Western Magickal Tradition?
And what that truly is and means?

No one has to "tell" you anything to be convincing about tarot and entities, because the tarot and the entities are so bound to each other you can't possibly avoid or explain away the connection. They are so intertwined and interconnected, they are actually...the same.

And that is the whole point as how could anyone present it, claiming to be expert, without making that more than obvious connection part of the dissertation.

Should you investigate it further, then you will know the meaning behind these recent exchanges.
It isn't really a matter of someone's opinion on the matter, because the facts clearly dictate what...it...is.

If you study the connection of the tarot with the Kabbalah, and what the Kabbalah really is, it will be corroborated even further the connection with entities. And this is far more established than those of recent opinion who would grasp at the pure psychological Jungian interpretation of the tarot while attempting to discount the entity connection by referring to it as a psychological internal process.

These divination arts are clearly part and derivative of the satanic magic of Enos (Enoch). Investigate that further.
This magic uses the names of Chaos Gods to control lesser Chaos entities.
Those entities ARE the tarot.
This was all part of the Tower of Babel story and leads up the the present of establishing the existing Jewish control matrix of reality.
There is no good version of the tarot available to anyone because the very matrix of reality based upon the Kabbalah matrix doesn't permit its existence and all tarot use is predetermined and predefined by the elite Jews that have complete knowledge of this. All public releases of these arts are designed to fool the adherent and sequester more power to the occult elite by magickal-quantum physics means.
It is a pyramid power scheme that you are not aware of as you participate while thinking you are knowing yourself.
This is the Jewish shit that keeps the Rothschilds in power, the Jews running the show and the whole Zion Armageddon script rolling along.
Muslims must die because, unlike Christians and Freemasons, they don't kiss Jew ass. So they must go.
Same with China...they are not under Jew control...which is why all the middle east chess game is just a lead up to war with China.
On the occult side of things...energy vampirism is feeding those with apparent power and control.


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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  KapitanScarlet on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 22:36

On some recent podcasts i just checked , mtsar mentions divine guides, spirit guides etc , which i would interpret as a "benevolent higher adviser " psychic entity that has interface with the individual consciousness
But there is no discussion into the mechanics of entitys good and bad from him or anyone else ,

also no mention of how its possible for malevolent entitys to hijack the microphone from the benevolent entity , if the human allows certain processes to occur , like for instance , to take in alcohol or drugs, which can turbocharge the connection with psychic entitys

I also observe that because of the fact that humans dream , i believe that the present existence stage has been preset for humans to communicate with entitys subconsciously or more consciously , the purpose of magick if there was a noble one , would be to evolve a knowledge of these psychic entitys and influences then make contact with them at will, then begin to source knowledge from them , just like history is littered with confessions from inventers etc about aquiring vital new info through incidental dream entity contact, but there must be corruption and deceipt also present in the world of psychic entitys where people can be turned into bloated beasts etc from acute power injection influences into their lower chakra areas which creates a fallout fog in their higher sensibilities and this is why they cannot see that they have become corrupted from the inside out

i think there is a whole science of the realm of entity knowledge waiting to be documented and speculated by those outside of the elite zionite cabal that may have an advanced and ancient dcument already on this

In essence, those that have knowledge of and control the psychic entity influences, actually control those that dont , without them knowing it, in fact the intelligence is so great, that those who are being controlled by advanced subconscious nano-influences actually are programmed to think they themselfes are in control hence they would never dream of looking behind their backs to see whos holding their leads because they cant even concieve of their own secret masters existence





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Re: Michael Tsarion Revisited

Post  seraphim on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 22:45

No Kapis, your post bumped mine out, it just happens. Laughing Things are getting real exciting here. I will have to come back and post later.


Last edited by seraphim on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 23:04; edited 1 time in total
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