Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

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Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

Post  highnoon on Thu 09 Jun 2011, 22:21

Ive come to understand that i have eccentric or some kind of very mild autism. ive known this always. but the conventional dilemma of nature vs nurture seems to not apply to people with brain chemistry disorders.

let me take an extreme type of disorder. down syndrome. to a person with downs, they come from two regular parents. so genetics isnt a factor. if bill gates has a child with downs syndrome, and can afford the downs person with a great environmental advantage, it doesnt mean anything either. they have downs syndrome. if you give a downs syndrome person great life advice, and how to have the right attitude....they still have downs syndrome.

a downs syndrome is a downs syndrome is a downs syndrome. they all have similiar, or even exact lives to each other of being excluded from the vast majority of regular people and should have roughly the same expectations out of life and end up in a similiar fate despite whatever countless factors of nature or nurture you want to include...now my disorder which has never been diagnosed, is maybe even worse than downs syndrome. because i had the pleasure of looking 100% normal, yet experiencing a "delayed" alienation. rather than an immediate alienation. because I express myself always with that subtle "xfactor" quality that does alienate me from maybe 4/5ths of society. it means i only ever at any givin time, have 20% of the world to take my side in things, vouche for me, be my friend, give me an opportunity. etc. this problem that i have had has i have shown, is not derived from genes, environment, or attitude. but from within...within the synapses of my brain. which the cause could be anything from a toxin during pregnancy of my biological mother to randomess. to radiation of some kind. to whatever. etc examples tend to end after 3 examples so ill stop here and im also out of examples.

the purpose of this thread or what i was thinking when i made this thead. which is its relationship to the nature vs nurture problem. because i think i have illustrated a problem, ei brain chemistry, which seems to circumvent that "universal dillema" completely......basically nature vs nurture has a context to it, the context that the subjects are "normal".


if people with flawed brain chemistry fall out of the parameters to be judged on regular factors when trying to assess their fate. what can you use? it just seems to me like unlike some savant level autistic people, i dont have any number crunching power to bring to the table. all i have is, "a little bit of awkardness all the time" to bring to the table. my strengths dont really translate well into the real world. it would almost be better for me to be more autistic and be even more unsociable. for the chance to gain somekindof "super human" skill that would make me outwardly unique and valuable. is that irrational for me to think that? to rationalize that to be more disabled because the more disabled i am the benefits i gain actually put me on the map? i know its sad to think that but im having a hard time approaching my flaw in any other way.
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Re: Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

Post  KapitanScarlet on Thu 09 Jun 2011, 23:04

Brain Chemistry could be interpreted as only one half of the package that make up human consciousness, the other being spiritual chemistry
Perceiving the self through Brain chemistry alone isolates the being into the clutches of the scientific nutcases
Perceiving the self through Spiritual chemistry alone isolates the being into the clutches of the religious nutcases

Unfortunately today , the emphasis is on Science only in the realms of general well being and integration in society

I now have to put forth evidence that can support the possibility that these two chemistrys of being are active

Its easy to test the brain chemistry theory , because taking chemicals like alcohol , drugs etc alters the brain chemistry and thus the personality of the being which manifests in their perceptions as well as their expressions
According to any scientist , the above is the only thing that occurs , but what is actually being changed by the introduction of the alcohol or drugs , the fluidic chemistry of the body is altered, which is where science halts, but also the perceptive and expressive fluidity of the persona is also changed which i put forward as the spirit of them has also been altered in synch with the material chemistry

So there is absolute proof that introducing chemicals into a human body changes both the material components of the human persona as well as the spiritual components of the human persona

And people like Bruce Lipton are establishing evidence that the reverse is also true, that a persons thoughts and actions (spiritual chemistry ) can directly affect their physiology , their physical chemistry

So then to a person with downs syndrome , the scientists say that they have this thing and this is or isnt what can be done to help them
There may be some spiritualists whom say the opposite extreme

But there is no alternative practitioner that has knowledge of both physical and spiritual to address this problem

These disciplines are kept completly separate for reasons which must relate to control of peoples consciousness

Maybe Downs Syndrome and these other extreme handicaps are a forewarning of where the human will devolve into if using only science as a means of medicine

In the Realm of alienation , again the experts will say that this is a negative conditioned to feel ashamed off , but another opinion could see alienation not as a negative but as a protective shield that keeps a person away freom phenomena that may be detrimental to its developed and developing state

Alienation is more like a default stage that the mind fixates on when many of the things stated above come to pass , but the alienation may not be a condition, it may be a signal that all is not well, and a new form of perception and action is required to navigate the persona out of these dangerous waters

Just a few alternative thoughts on the topic
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Re: Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

Post  Sputnik on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 10:46

The question raises another question: what is "normal" brainchemistry?

I agree with Kapis in that consciousness is not a purely physical phenomenon. It does manifest itself through our actions, it's output can materialize in a creative process. But the artists' painting is not theartists' actual consciousness..it's only a product of his conscious creativity, a fingerprint.

Consciousness is non-located...it is not inside the brain, so to speak. This is why scientists don't understand how memory really functions...they have to admit that it cannot be 'located' within the brain..Now if it is clear that memory is not located in our brain....why would science not ask the right question? Because for scientists it is in the realm of the forbidden fruit....

The ancient egyptians, especially in Heliopolis, connected science with the spirit of creation...then some 5000 years ago they stopped teaching it. Fact is, if we ignore the reality of the non-manifest "spiritworld" we will never get out of this rut of not understanding who we are and what we can achieve.
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Re: Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

Post  Sputnik on Fri 10 Jun 2011, 11:25

my strengths dont really translate well into the real world. it would almost be better for me to be more autistic and be even more unsociable. for the chance to gain somekind of "super human" skill that would make me outwardly unique and valuable. is that irrational for me to think that? to rationalize that to be more disabled because the more disabled i am the benefits i gain actually put me on the map? i know its sad to think that but im having a hard time approaching my flaw in any other way.

Let me try to explain how I see your problem. I think that autism in it's lesser degree may cause you to be stuck in two realms...the autistic world...and the "normal"...or shall we say "conformity driven world". The conformity driven world has made it mandatory for it's subjects to subject themselves to certain standard behavioural rituals. Concerning the individual, two rituals are quite prominent, the first is called self confidence and the other is called self-esteem. Our whole psychological conditioning is based on those two "rituals".

Self confidence is something you teach yourself. Your parents and peers may support you, but it is ultimately your own achievement.

Self-esteem is something we get from the outside, from others, you can't 'work on it' yourself. It is our friends, family and society that show us how much they value us as an individual..and from this feedback we determine our own self-esteem. If somebody is shown how precious they are to others they will feel well and have a good self-esteem. The lack of being valued by others...no matter how selfconfident someone is..such a person will suffer from a low self-esteem, because society will always demonstrate in a very cruel fashion that they don't care and don't value that person. All disabled people are treated like that by society. Old people nowadays too. One could then look at society and examine what it is that is regarded as being worthy..and how and who defines social standing, and why people follow this social doctrine.

As you can see, there is no remedy in wanting to be more autistic, or a chance to be treated better if one were to be a super-human. Even then -- it's all an illusion. If you want to have special mental and physical powers...it must be based on your self confidence, because YOU want it for yourself. But if you want it only to be accepted by peers, family and society, because you feel their lack of respect....you will only continue to suffer from a society that is much sicker then you could ever be.

And since cruel society likes to select, it would be wise to select yourself the people whom you trust with your self-esteem..you don't have to accept the status quo. Choose those friends who show you affection and who are good for your self-esteem..and treat those who you love the same, show them how much you value them...it will give their self-esteem a great boost. Be conscious of the social mechanisms and psychological effects we have on one another..It is better to learn to see the math behind the math and then make your own equations..then to want to be someone else.
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Re: Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

Post  highnoon on Sat 11 Jun 2011, 18:20

Well if somebody is overtly disfigured or "looks" handicapped, like a person with downs syndrome. people dont really give them a chance they are prejudiced from first sight or first contact. but i get greeted by people wherever i go with the idea that im normal or even "great" because i have above average looks, am tall etc. but as time passes I get the pleasure of experiencing a growing rejection that started off as maybe an earnest attempt to get to know me or in some cases if its a girl, flirt with me.

In the latter case of flirting going wrong. I can sometimes manipulate somebody by keeping my mouth shut for extended periods of time. And of course, i can usually predict that they'll think "im being mysterious" or im just being shy so if they really want to figure me out they'll amp up them breaking the ice so then the flirting will increase, lets say at a job where i get to see a person periodically but job duties bring us together but also pry us apart so a also girl takes into account not just me being quiet but understands that im here sometimes and then i have to be over there sometimes...i could just put something down and talk for 5 minutes ignoring my tasks but then id blow my cover wide open. so if just remain quiet and give simple answers i can delay this rejection for maybe a week or more. this was more of my behaviour when i was younger and actually cared to make friends at places or thought hanging out outside of work was possible. but at my age i usually just try to expose myself right away so all the intrigue of others just crashes immediately and i can get this out of the way for myself on day 1.

so getting the opportunity to always engage people is different. i would imagine people with downs syndrome would wish they could be as close i can get to normal relationships because they dont even get the chance of intrigueing anybody because everybody knows they are ugly and deformed with reduced mental function from the onset of noticing them.


Its not that I break social conventions like talk out of turn or bring up topics not appropriate for the setting or whathaveyou (like eating at mcdonalds and bringing up how insidious fast food is as somebody is about to bite into a chicken mcnugget) I dont do shit like that...its not that im monotone either, im not, (but maybe moreso slightly than most) its just I exude something that I am not qualified to describe.


And I think my brain chemistry is different from childbirth, I couldnt even talk near as well as others at age 5, i was maybe 2 years behind. but i was about 5 years ahead in reading comprehension at age 7. I also cant multitask while talking. like i cant talk and drive at the same time. I will either have to stop what im saying and focus on the road or ill run a stopsign or stay motionless at a light that has turned green. but i can do several nonverbal tasks all at the same time.

Its a bit funny but people who have accepted me, or dont fully realize whats up because lets say they're nerds or something. they get into my car and start talking to me and i have to choose between being uncharacteristically silent or possibly doing something scary as im talking which they notice and they think im a bad driver. in fact all of my tickets have been with somebody in my passengers seat. and ive lost my drivers license 3 times. but ive never had a speeding ticket or anything serious. ive been more eager to make sure im talking to somebody than to focus on whats happening on the road because i put too much value in making sure my passenger didnt get bored lol
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Re: Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 03:07

ive been more eager to make sure im talking to somebody than to focus on whats happening on the road because i put too much value in making sure my passenger didnt get bored lol
Your brain chemistry is very effervescent with this observation

So in society people are informed about chemicals , social rules , expectations , but nobody mentions that each persona has a spirit , an essence , which is very dependent on their physiology and vice versa

there are no college classes that study that subject, they dont openly study the indeterminants regarding peoples perceptions and expressions

The spirit or essence of a person can potentially be anything or nothing , but through experience , it takes 2 distinct paths, it becomes one thing among people and another thing on its own
It is the thing it becomes among other people that then mirrors back its so called personality which can be a self perpetuating force once it gathers momentum
People can become stuck in a specific mode of personality around certain people they are constantly encountering which may not be beneficial to their health
But also it can sometimes take a great leap to change something especially if financial restrictions , family or relationship restrictions are tight

So if a persons personality isnt working good for them among others they are currently encountering , they become isolated, alienated or start taking drink drugs which enforce a temporary change upon it , or they move away and look for new terrain, or they try and craftily alter areas of their personality which allows them to operate in a healthier manner without compromising their principles
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Re: Brain chemistry - defeats nature vs nurture?

Post  Sputnik on Sun 28 Aug 2011, 10:43

Incognito: The Secret Lives of the Brain




A stunning exploration of the 'we' behind the 'I'.
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