Suicide as rational thought...

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Suicide as rational thought...

Post  tgII on Fri 20 Nov 2009, 10:02

Hey, you folks want to see something related to the location of a Japanese
man who for whatever reason, jumped out in front of what we here call the
'Chuocide Line' (Chuo Line) train in Tokyo?

I took this digital pic the day after the dude plunged in front of a train. Just
as I made a left turn in my car on a road paralleling this track, a train came
by and then applied the emergency breaks. I was forced to go around using
an underpass because the train stopped at this crossing delaying it forty
minutes.

The jumper's head was found about 50 meters down the tracks and not by me,
although it was probably laying there somewhere along the tracks as I drove by.


View location of suicide close to tgII's home

"The vital consequence of rationalism would be suicide", said Miguel de Unamuno,
but for the Japanese who are not a particularly rational people, perhaps suicide is
the only outcome, the ultimate irony being a rational decision to make, for a
Japanese in opposition to a non-rational culture? Kierkegaard put it very well,
"For suicide is the only tolerable existential consequence of pure thought...this
is not to praise the suicide, but to respect the passion..."
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  seraphim on Fri 20 Nov 2009, 21:08

Is Kierkegaard saying that one has control over one's death?

Nietzsche can say that again.

I had suicidal thoughts when I was 19, maybe almost everyone has had them.....that's true we have to be encouraged to live it seems, because the outside environment is powerful almost more so than a person.

I had to train myself it was just a state of mind and to not have those thoughts, because I really do want to live, whatever was out there making me think these ways was getting stronger than my willpower so luckily I had a tool to stop it.

For me it would have been to escape, but I know now that would have been a terrible mistake. It's a very sad thing for a person to take there life IMO.

Suicide is probably made taboo because everything is supposed to always be wonderful and the perfect reality based on religions indoctrinations and mind control, but it's not like that at all, people live a lie, so when a person commits suicide it's all hush hush, because deep down everyone knows things are not okay in this world and people are not in control of their lives. Simply because we have not made our realities our own, instead one lives a life based on another's and the mass reality given to us. We have got to start weaving our own ( ;

I think that's why people kill themselves they have no personal empowerment and their life has already been taken away from them, as soon as they are born.
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  KapitanScarlet on Fri 20 Nov 2009, 22:52

Good quotes on suicide, horrendous thing to come across TG, i have to admit that if someone cooly rationalises that life is not worth living and decides to top themselfs, its an incredible act of willpower or stupidity , depending on ones beleif system.
But people who drink or take drugs to do it are a different kettle of fish.
I dont like the idea of someone commiting suicide and themn all their friends family are left to pick up the pieces of why , thats a horrible thing

But if i think about it, these are the 3 main points of doing it
Life is untolerable so they just want to finish it
They want to hurt others by doing it
They either do or do not beleif in god, if they do not, its a massive act to suddenly end yourself into nothingness.
But if they do beleive in some god, are they doing it at some level to spite them or blaming the god for their current status

There are so9 many avenues to rationalise, i actually think it would take a lifetime to rationalise them through thoroughly and by that time one would be ready for death anyways

Seraphim - your honesty is inspiring and your revelations have water Like a Star @ heaven

I wonder if the mash theme planted subliminals for some people

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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  seraphim on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 07:38

Thanks Kapis and yeah too bad you had to be around that tgII. That MASH theme song I never could listen too, maybe it is subliminal.
Rainyday wrote:
Everyday there is some kind of sick injustice and cruelty in the world and everyone is playing some part in it, regardless of how microscopic a part. When people find themselves thinking on these horrors, most people have to find a grounding or something to hang onto or just teach themselves to not care in general.
Perhaps because of the parasitic nature of the universe. And folks have to deal with it somehow, like you said some take the easy way out or whatever it takes to hang on?

I loved how Krishnamurti interacted with those children.
He said the real corruption is inside one. Don't fall for what the environment wants you to be..violent..corrupt...

I enjoyed all the videos. Guess you have to decipher which one is new age fake and which new age real. This person or Being made alot of sense.
I liked his idea when he said the Gods were just aliens who came here, and why people still worship in religions. And that one are not free on earth, one forgot what freedom is and our soul is forgotten too, all we know is negativity. One of the purposes is to stay positive as we are bombarded with this energy.
He said the meaning of life is the development of consciousness, the mind, and the heart.
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  seraphim on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 07:42

What I was trying to say about suicide is that people commit suicide because that is one thing they can control, in other words their death. Because it seems one can’t or is prevented from controlling one's life.

Besides just the world that can be difficult to live in, I hear that alot of people are going to start barfing now and they are because everything that has been kept inside will be coming out. Things kept inside for generations and generations in all people. These oppressions have to come out sooner or later or a person will kill theirself.
This is what happens when a person is born without freedom.
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 11:20

In the Krishnamartu video check out the scene at 11.20, he says "were all so frightened" and facially gestures at that innocent child, off course we have to presume that there are others present behind the child like camera people etc maybe more children , but i gotta love how that child carries out his own little "self-preservation deflection gesture" like passing on the krishnamurtus proclamation to those behind him and not allowing himself to be crucified by it ..... now thats one smart little dude Very Happy

"Corruption begins within " also with treachery, the betrayal of trust , can be found in everyday relating among many people, etc these are more of the inner psychic behaviours that then tend to lead out to the physical manifestations of corrupt acts


What I was trying to say about suicide is that people commit suicide because that is one thing they can control, in other words their death. Because it seems one can’t or is prevented from controlling one's life.
Yeah controlling ones life sounds like an easy gig, but amost impossible for many not only because of physical / material / societal restrictions but also the immense powerful forces of desires, temptations, corruptions etc that are encountered in the psyche and often overwhelm most .

Everyone has their own truth they could add to any philosophy and make any philosophy seem reasonable.
Maybe it's when a person can't find their truth, ideal or a meaningful reason for their life that suicide becomes an option?
Or, maybe it could be just the opposite. Maybe it's when a person learns the true nature of reality and understands that remaining in the chaos is an insult to their intellect. At that point, suicide could seem reasonable, like taking the fast train to their next destination, if there is one.
If you dig deep enough, there is always something...
Good points for sure for me
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  tgII on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 11:35

    I have many questions on this subject, but who really has answers? That's a question in itself. Being the conspiracy type, I always think there are some people who know the answers, but keep the secret to themselves. Could you imagine if the answer were a positive one, people would be dropping themselves like flies.


This observation, rainyday, is probably more cogent than you could ever possibly imagine for the following reason. I have been completely immersed in the work of Joseph Farrell, reading all of his books including listening to any interviews I come across on the internet.

In one particularly important interview, Joseph Farrell discussed how the power elite justify killing so many people in all these wars coming to the conclusion this same elite know something about physics the rest of us don't know, that is, life continues after death and because this elite know this it may be one reason they create conditions on earth in which so many people are killed.

Don't know about dropping like flies, but there is a lot more going on here than most people know or can even possibly understand.
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  highnoon on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 16:07

the universe is ageless. therefore you have to assume that even if souls can find ways to disintegrate themselves, the universe has the ability to create new souls. and you have no guarantee that those new souls aren't made from bits and pieces of "dead souls", and then part of you that was destroyed is now a tiny little piece of something else.

i'm not happy with the idea of permanent death or eternal life. i also wonder how many suicidal people would feel cheated to find out its not the end. and whether to kill themselves at 35 or live till 79, the next 600 trillion incarnations were trivial and not sentient and the majority suffered gruesome deaths at the hands of higher beings and or just higher food chain predators.
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  tgII on Sat 21 Nov 2009, 23:12

HighNoon, greetings. Thanks for the insights. I've changed much
of my own understanding of death and dying since getting access
to people like your self and others who all have differing opinions
on this subject.

I guess valuing life in the here and now is what's most important.
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  seraphim on Sun 22 Nov 2009, 06:47

Awww there you are Highnoon I thought you were in here somewhere interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing welcome to DaRythymDivine.

Lots to listen up on rainyday.
I was thinking of something postive about suicide too. But so many people don't even know they have a soul and are not allowed to even believe that anything else exists except for what they See and so much is made taboo including suicide. There must be a sinister reason for being kept ignorant.

But all these points are great, and suicide is taboo maybe because then you know you will finally get a glimpse of what freedom is, of course life exists after this death/rebirth event, but maybe only for awhile until they harvest your soul which is just wondering around out there thinking it's in a dream. I was thinking who would pick to live in Earth's harsh circumstances, but that may be universal and we have to be born in the physical to learn to progress, I'm sure there's other reasons, but I have always been big on evolving and what that excuse me...pleiadian...said in the video rang true. And it's so difficult it seems to evolve in the physical, still I would never leave earth in that way.

And then I was thinking these people would think they are dreaming once they leave their bodies and may become lost in that case they won't be able to go to the next stage....
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Wed 02 Dec 2009, 00:13

Smoke, Eat, Drink and be merry...slow suicide as "enjoyment" and "satisfaction" of the pleasure drives.

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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sat 12 Dec 2009, 16:29





The 3 Primary colours are RED GREEN BLUE
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  KapitanScarlet on Tue 29 Dec 2009, 21:30

a very naked exposure of thought flames, i will revisit it later and see what it brings to my mind
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  seraphim on Tue 29 Dec 2009, 22:04

Ahhh you beat me to this post captain!!!
I wanted to respond awhile ago, but didn't turn out that way LOL!!!

Thanks for sharing that Flames, go straight to the heart.
You can turn all the pain in the world into motivation instead of making the suffering your reality. In a way it kind of strengthens you. Yeah it kind of sucks living in this world, the way it's been made, and it doesn't have to be like that. There are so many possibilities and the Earth itself is not bad at all. It's just been made really difficult to live.

I'm surprised I haven't gone down that road or am dead, because I had plenty of opportunities to do that. So many millions of people slowly kill themselves already, so many people are already commiting suicide in that way.

I wanted out the first day I was born, I said uh oh wrong place and I started meditating and going into trance in order to do that at a very young age. I commited suicide to this world a long time ago and I had to leave. But then during the teens, it's natural to want to go out into the social world or be a part of something bigger, and so I did, and it really was depressing to see how it really was out there and at 19 I was going to say goodbye, but then something made me change my perception and I started meditating again. Instead of leaving the world like in suicide, my reality changed and I knew I was living in maya, so why let the negative effect me. And it's not a form of denial, I know it can be hell.
And it seems to be kind of a special time we are living in now, so that makes me want to live even more. And I tell myself... what am I going to do today. What little things can I do.

The only thing that saved me was to change my perception. And I know that this world is not the only place or world. And the mass consciousness (one of suffering and slavelike) does not have to be my reality.

This doesn't mean shit to those who are already emotionally dead and serve the world disease, but the suicidal person knows this and would rather give their life than accept voluntary slavery. Life a warrior going to battle, he has come to grips that he may have to die for a reason.

One has very few choices don't they, either live like a slave or say goodbye. But an aware person like you has more choices.

I see a lot of unhappy fucking people out there and sometimes I wonder what the fuck is going on in their minds, if anything is going on at all. I wished these issues could be discussed more openly and publicly, because I see people absorbing the negativity that is being broadcasted from every angle life a psychic sponge. How long all of that can continue, I do not know, and I sometimes wonder if it's already too late.
All the fucked up people used to get to me, as well as some of my family. I had to tell myself there is nothing I can do for them, unless they really want to change and that's not many. They totally upset me when I even tried to talk to them and sucked me into their misery. So I had to put an end to that by not being around them. I also realized that they don't want to hurt me intentionally, it's just that they are just in so much pain themselves that all they can do is vent, take it out on others or go crazy. So I have no hard feelings for them.

And I don't mean to be rational, I"m terrible, I'm always thinking of reasons why, always wondering.
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

Post  KapitanScarlet on Wed 30 Dec 2009, 03:13

And I don't mean to be rational, I"m terrible, I'm always thinking of reasons why, always wondering.
wonder is a core component of the self, dont let that one die , or your for it Razz

but on despair and thoughts of suicide etc, there are plenty of reasons for such, and there are also plenty lack of reasons, because maybe reason itself does not explain the phenomena quite enough

Thats why so much is dependent on ones present beleifs or lack of them
because if one beleifs that there are malevolent and even benelovent influential dimensional energys that can influence human psychology , then , right there can be found a reason to begin ones strategy against such an opponent

if one just beleives in the physical world, then diet , relationships , work situation, (worth attachment to society ) monetary situation , politics are the areas of concern

my personal interpretation of the despair phenomena is multi-versed, if it persists, then one is undergoing an ordeal, and so can continue enduring and hope things change , or can try some things to shake it up, which can be simple or more complex.

personally i see the state of despair, if not from bereavement, relating directly to spiritual dis-harmony in present life status

Now to trace the roots of that spiritual disharmony should be possible , it will be related to one or more of the physical aspects or maybe a more deeply set psychological equation relating to expectations and their lack of manifestation or any other numbers of things from past and relationship with the present

but just to identify one has a "temporary or long running " disharmony is a massive step, then to be able to debate that with others is catalytic

The medical field evaluates suicidal people as all having a mental illness, rather it be temporary or permanent. Not once ever, do they evaluate the very system itself as a possible epidemic for starting the psychosis. One of the most horrific thoughts I had back when I was twelve, was the thought of living an uncreative, mechanical, mediocre, predictive life like everyone else that I know. A life without answers, a life without questions, a life with blind faith, a life of chaotic uncertainties.

really good point about the system being the cause, it will be for many

in fact you have made many insightful observations in the post above flames, i am always impressed by people who can stand back and rationalise their prresent perception of their being in the world like this especially in areas that people dont like to air

with the manner in which you elaborated that, you really do have the tools to alter your own reality and other peoples i would say for sure, that is the most powerful weapon there is , if utilised to its potential
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Re: Suicide as rational thought...

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