All Things Native and Ancient

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All Things Native and Ancient

Post  seraphim on Sat 13 Mar 2010, 08:18

Didn't want to make another topic Neutral , delete if it's unnessesary.

This legend is a key to the extreme age of the Mexican tablets. The legend shows that at the time the temple was built Mu was above water, because the temple is under the jurisdiction of Mu. Mu was submerged about 10,000 B. C., thus showing that this temple was built more than 12,000 years ago, but how much longer I have found nothing to indicate.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/ssm/ssm09.htm
I call Mexico, Mother Mexico, because I believe that is where the people of Mu had left an important civilization. And because their really is Spirit there. James Churchward based on his research said that may have happened 50,000 years ago or later.
And says that mankind had been on earth for 200,000 years.

And that they talk of the little people who still live in those areas, (but they are very elusive, like leprechauns) and that is a fact and they speak fluent Maya tongue, which is what the first settlers from Lemuria or Mu spoke. Whom were and most likely were the Lemurians, who were blue eyed, blond haired, because there is a tribe like that in Honduras or Gautamala who speak the Maya language as well and say they fled when their King Quetzal was conquered.
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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  seraphim on Sat 13 Mar 2010, 08:37

When some Gods visited.......
Mayan Time, Prophecy and the Tzolk'in

The great Gods, or the designers who began the project, were Tepeu, Gugumatz, Bitol, and Tzakol. They made the plans to begin life in this part of the universe.

Mother Earth is a living energy. She reversed humanity's work and decided to make some changes of her own -- to restructure herself, to keep up with the changes that were about to begin. Some of the continents partially sank into the ocean, while other parts of the Earth rose to give way to different continents.

Now it was time for four new Gods to come to Earth and continue the project by establishing four energy vortexes -- one in each continent. These four restorers were called Nim Quetzalcoatel, Maya Ches, Caramaya, and Nagamaya. These vortexes were Tikal in Mesoamerica, Greece in Europe, Egypt in Africa, and the city of Lhasa, Tibet, Asia. Harmony was restored.

In the next cycle of darkness, the planet took a new shift. This time the continents didn't sink into the ocean, but there were great floods. There are many American books that this is written in, like the Chilam Balam, the Siu, the Popol Vu, the Analyses of the Chajil, and the Book of the Council of Total in Copan, Guatemala

When the next cycle occurred, a third change happened, and another cosmic energy project began. This time four more Gods came to organize and restore the light. Their names were Balam Quitze for the red race, Balam Acab for the black race, Maja Kutaj for the white race, and Iq Balam for the yellow race

These beings of light came after the great floods when there was a great layer of mist and clouds covering the Earth so the Sun was unable to penetrate. Now their mission was to remove the clouds blocking the Sun. First, they performed three fire ceremonies which seemed unsuccessful at the time. However, they each helped to a certain degree. After the third ceremony, a luminous being came to Earth. He was so luminous that it was difficult to see him. He explained what was necessary to make a fourth ceremony succeed. Then the great luminous beings came together to perform a fourth ceremony. At the end of this fourth ceremony the clouds began to open. The first thing they saw was Venus, but thought it was the Sun. That is why, in Mayan, they call Venus the great fake. Later when the Sun came out, they knew they had been successful. They played the musical instruments and danced with joy. They restored the light in all of the sacred sites. They probably restored Chimney Rock! Harmony was restored once again.
In 2012 we might be seeing Venus again!!


http://www.kachina.net/~alunajoy/timekeeper.html
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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  seraphim on Sat 13 Mar 2010, 09:05

Pakal opens Xibalba to Humankind

The prediction was fulfilled on December 26, 2004, when a megathrust earthquake of intensity 9.0 hit the area, releasing a great amount of energy, and killing more than 150,000 people in a powerful tsunami. The red dot indicates where the disaster occurred after mapping the end of the Venus transit. There was another scientific observation that indicated a problem, the algae bloom on the shores of Indonesia.

The Mayan mathematical precision of Lord Pakal Ahau of an impending global disaster could not be more accurate after the feared Transit of Venus in 2004.

Consequently, Pakal says the prediction is to be taken seriously in consideration in 2012, the next Transit of Venus will happen on June 6, 2012 and if you read our article Virgin of Guadalupe and the 2012 Prophecy we think we have big problems.
http://pakalahau.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/venus-transit-sea-of-sorrow-2012/

Not sure who or what kind of messenger this Lord Pakal Ahau is, will be here in 2012???
On May 20, 2012 at noon, the first celestial alignment announcing 2012 occurs when the Pleiades and the sun are at the top of their conjunction in the zenith of the galactic dome. This event as seen from the latitude of the Ancient Toltec city of Tula relates to the advent of Quetzalcoatl and it is the first of four events which announces the Return of the Coming King. The Transit of the Pleiades through the zenith of the sky at midday on the 20th of May lasts approximately 70 years.

As you may know, the Pyramid of the Sun outside Mexico City at Teotihuacan was built with the alignment of the Pleiades in mind. If you place yourself on the west side, you will see the setting point of the constellation at 12:00 am at night at its highest point. Another typical example is the Mayan celebration in the ancient city of Chichen Itza when the Sun describes a shadow path similar to a serpent on the north side of the stairways of the pyramid of the Kukulcan God.

Why were the Mayan astronomers so interested in the path of the Pleiades? Lord Pakal tells us that the Pleiades is the basic system of our dot-pulse-dot consciousness, and it is also found as a primitive neuronal code in our limbic brain to enact communication with other non-visible entities. Did humans have it from the beginning of our creation or someone implanted it? We don't know but our brain is the only system on Earth that has evolved through millions of years and it is the only device that is able to start this kind of communication.

http://pakalian.tripod.com/mayan_contact.htm
http://mexicanhorse.tripod.com/cover.htm
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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sun 27 Nov 2011, 22:46

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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sat 01 Sep 2012, 16:21

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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  Sputnik on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 15:24




According to legend this scares away winter.....and appearently Turks as well *lol*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zvon%C4%8Dari









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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  quicksilvercrescendo on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 16:28

...are they on their way journeying to Mecca?
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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  Sputnik on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 18:08

LOL, I have no idea but I reckon we modern day croats are just half or secondary christians. We've still got a lot of interesting *nativ* pre-christian customs & storytelling. The Vampyr or Upir for example has become so distorted by now, as it has been turned into a purely evil (bloodthirsty) creature, almost cartoonish, by interpretation and definition of the Christian Church. But even today some people are proud descendents of Vamyprs. "Pir" means winged or feathered...I don't want to destroy fantasies, but Vampyr and Upir simply translates: shaman. Oh and we have elves too (Vile "weele"), and an Odin-like thundergod (Perun) fighting with the snake (Veles) that eats the roots of the worldtree, etc ;D


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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  Sputnik on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 20:19

...some more croat folklore
The cross is actually a symbol of life, if it's parts are of equal length, like those of an X for example. Children from human-elves relationships belong to the elves. They would pick a child and teach them their secret knowledge. Those children once grown up would teach others this valuable knowledge for the benefit of the community. But the ungratefulness of humankind separated humanity from the Elves. Today only their human relatives can still "talk to them". The Elves (or Fairies, or whatever one likes to call them) are very wise and powerful, and they are willing to help humanity, but if one tries betray them, they will retaliate. If wind blows in circles or you see circles forming in the grass 'it's them' dancing. The english expression "taken by fairies" has a croat equivalent...and has two possible outcomes...a very positive one, or one in which a person is never to regain health and sanity. In some villages people believe to be the descendants of Elves or of Vampyrs. Those who "were taken by the fairies" or have Elb blood tend to age slower than other people. According to legend many animals are the spirit of ones ancestors , that is why we ought to treat animals with respect. Plants are sacred spirits with magical value, and should never be cut without need. The popular knock on wood habit [three times] comes from the ancient ritual to knock on a tree three times [to greet the spirit of that tree]. Our cosmology is also situated in the worldtree, with it roots deep in the underworld where Veles rules, sometimes depicted as a black horned god or as a snake. Then there is our world. Above our material world is Nav, the eternal world, where heroic men and women feast in the company of the gods and goddesses. But there is no 'personified' evil or devil in this cosmology. Veles is not the bad guy, he is just one of the chiefs of the underworld, and also the god of cattle and agriculture. Everyone in this pantheon has multiple purposes and personalities. There is no fixed good vs. bad guys in slavic folklore. In short, many old rituals and members of the pantheon simply got christianized, and were just re-dressed in christian garb. We still burn big fires at solstices, only it is called Saint this-or-that day. Baba Jaga [grandmother] or Baba Roga [horned women] has two sisters, Lady Midday and Lady Midnight. In our folklore it is said to be good to rest during the 12th hour (noon & midnight) to prevent being in the way of Baba (grandmother) while she is spinning humanity's fate. This is also resembling the tale of the three sisters/fates..

Btw, Lada is the slavic goddess of spring, beauty and love [Norse Goddess Iduna]. In Spring young women representing Lada are decorated with flowers (in some places also with sabre swords in their hands) to greet Juraj - the Green man - also known as Jarilo, god of spring. Todays (christian) reference/equivalent is St. George...




Lada is the May queen


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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sun 23 Sep 2012, 01:42

They have them on some buildings in the diamond rich port of Antwerp Exclamation





Oh and the Jain Symbol



JAINISM
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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sat 06 Oct 2012, 11:43

A History Of Angels In Western Thought - by Richard Ebbs

Have you ever had a flying dream? In my experience, and the experience of people I know, such dreams tend to be particularly intense, as though the 'action' of flying in the dream has some special significance. Notwithstanding the Freudian approach that labels flying dreams as always symbolising sex[!], it now seems pretty clear that such dreams can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For whatever reason, it's fair to say that the idea of human beings being able to fly is something that has fascinated people since time immemorial. Consequently, images of human beings with wings can be found across the world in every major culture. This essay explores the connections between the winged human motif and 'angels' in the art and religious thinking of exclusively 'western' (ie Christian/Islamic/Judaic) cultures, with a brief look at a number of 'strands' of thought from ancient Sumeria and beyond, to the present-day.

Our word 'angel' comes from the Greek angelos, which itself could be considered as a translation of the Hebrew word mal'akh, meaning 'messenger', etymology suggesting a being responsible for carrying messages between the human world and some other realm or realms of existence, someone who is an intermediary between 'down here' and 'up there'.

SUMERIA
Sumerian society is the oldest society that has left us clear evidence of the use of a winged human motif. This evidence is in the form of stone carvings, either in the form of three-D statues or relief carvings that provide the illusion of three-dimensionality. Sumerian culture flourished around 3,000 BC between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers in present-day Iraq (see map showing the geographical extent of Sumerian culture). The religion of these people was complex, embracing a wide variety of spirits and gods, but of particular interest was their belief in 'messengers of the gods', angelic forces who ran errands between gods and humans.
The Sumerians also believed that each person had a 'ghost' of some sort (that we would now probably label as 'guardian angel') with this entity remaining a constant companion for a person throughout their life. Altars that appear to be dedicated to guardian angels have been found in the excavations of ancient Sumerian homes, along with stone engravings and temple wall paintings of human figures with wings. After the polytheistic Semitic tribes had conquered the Sumerians around 1900 BC their mythical cosmology borrowed the notion of angels from the vanquished Sumerians. These Semitic peoples developed the idea of a corpus of angels split into groupings answerable to each of the many Semitic gods, further subdividing these groups into vertical 'ranked' heirarchies, a notion which persisted into Zoroastrianism and monotheistic Judaism and beyond, as we shall see. Sumerian ideas probably set the scene for the development of Egyptian theology as well, although it is difficult to be clear about the detail of such cross-cultural influences.

"The civilization of the Jemdet Nasr period of Mesopotamia and the archaic period of Egypt are apparently roughly contemporary, but the interesting point is that in Mesopotamia many of the features of civilization appear to have a background, whereas in Egypt they do not. It is on this basis that many authorities consider that Egypt owes her civilization to the people of the Euphrates. There is no doubt that there is a connection, but whether direct or indirect we do not know".
Walter B. Emergy

"There are certain elements in Egypt's Early Dynastic Period which seem to betray unmistakable Sumerian influence. Egyptian hieroglyphic writing may be one. Another is the so-called 'paneled-facade' type of architecture found in Egyptian tombs from the First to the Third Dynasties (3200 to 2800 B.C.).
The most remarkable evidence of cultural connection is that shown in the architecture of the Early Dynastic tombs of Egypt and Mesopotamian seal-impressions showing almost exactly similar buildings".
Leonard Cottrell in The Quest for Sumer

Sumerian domination of the Middle East came to an end around 2,000 BC, when Sumer was defeated militarily and the overlapping Assyrian and Babylonian cultures took over. Winged figures can also be found among the icons of ancient Assyria and Babylonia.

But how, exactly, did images of angelic beings find their way into the hearts, minds and iconography of the Sumerian people(s), one asks? Where did the notion of an 'angel' come from before that? We are lucky to have had the extremely durable stone artifacts of this period handed down to us, but (as with the 'dark ages' much much later in Europe) just because a prior culture did not commit itself to the written word, to pictures or to carvings that would last thousands of years, this does not mean that there was no culture. Almost certainly, the motif of a winged human figure goes back much further than Sumeria even, in fact the motif almost certainly goes back into the shamanic mists of time. Recent evidence suggests that this is the case...

EGYPT
The forms of some of the most enduring Egyptian gods can be traced back to the first few dynasties, that is, to around 2,500 BC. In many cases these gods took the shape of some animal, which was regarded as the soul (Ba) of the god. Horus, god of the sky, for instance, was represented as a falcon, whereas Thoth, god of the moon and patron of writing, learning and the sciences, was often represented as a man with the head of an ibis. Isis and Maat were often represented with wings as we can see in the two images above and below.

The Egyptian Book of the Dead lists 500 gods and goddesses, and it is possible to identify at least 1200 more dieties in later ancient Egyptian writings. Some of these dieties were undoubtedly closer to our concept of an angel rather than a god, however: for instance there was at one time a cult dedicated to invoking the help of the Hunmanit, who were a group of entities connected with the sun, portrayed as rays of the sun, rather like the Christian representation of the angel choir of the seraphim. The Hunmanit had a responsibility to look after the sun, such that by looking after the sun, they were also indirectly fulfilling a responsibility to look after humanity at the same time. Insofar as they were guardians, and angels, it does not seem unreasonable to characterise them as early versions of the guardian angel. As with the Sumerians, Egyptian iconography includes 'winged humans' of one sort or another also: for instance Isis, queen of all the Egyptian goddesses, is often represented as a woman with wings. The flowering of Sumerian culture was contemporaneous with the first few dynasties of the great culture of ancient Egypt, around 2,500 BC, and archaeologists incline to the view that there was a traffic not only of artefacts, but also of ideas and iconography between Sumeria and Egypt before the time when Sumerian influence declined (around 2,000 BC). However archaelogists are apparently not in a position to say clearly whether the winged human motif was imported into Egypt from Sumeria, or vice versa, or whether it arose spontaneously and separately in each of the two cultures.

The Indo-European Migration.

Beginning at the end of the fourth millenium BC, there was a movement of people, whose distinct ethnicity we have come to call 'Indo-European', from Europe to Central Asia, and even as far as North India. This movement is still shrouded in a degree of mystery, but it would appear that there were probably a number of migratory 'waves' in an easterly direction up to and including the first millenium BC, reaching a peak around 2000 BC. Among other things this migration helps explain the similarities between the ancient Greek and ancient Sanskrit languages. Modern Tajik is a linguistic relative. But how does this relate to the subject at hand?
Well, when we look at the extent of these Indo-European migrations, across thousands of miles of Asian landscape into the mists of time, it helps to underline the fact that there MUST have been a dissemination of both objects and ideas between Central Asia and Europe that was fairly widespread even in extremely ancient times. A look at a map of the (later) Persian empire also helps underline the extent to which artefacts and culture could travel from India on the one hand to Greece on the other (and vice versa). And just as we find the god Mithras (for instance) popping up in Greece and Central Asia (see next section), so we find his counterpart Mitra in the Rig-Veda, the most ancient of all Hindu 'texts' (that possibly goes back in spoken form to 3,000 BC).

MITHRAISM
Mithras was a light-bringer god, whose cult flourished between 1500 BC and the time of Christ, in lands as far apart as India and Great Britain, with a basis in what was then known as Persia (see map of the Persian empire around 500 BC). Although in his own cult Mithras does not fully conform to the image of 'angel' that we are particularly interested in here, nevertheless Mithraism was the most prevalent religion in Persia when Zoroaster (qv section below) was alive, and in Zoroastrianism Mithras was considered to be an angel who mediated between heaven and earth, later becoming judge and preserver of the created world. In Vedic cosmology also (where in the Rig Veda, Mitra is mentioned over 200 times), Mitra appears often to be more angel than god. The 'Mithras-cult' images of Mithras that we see here are typical close variations on the same scene, where Mithras fights the sacred bull, with his cloak billowing out behind him in a way that seems meant to suggest wings. Over and over again we find Mithras depicted in this way.

'Mihr', the ancient Persian form of the word 'Mithras', meant not only 'sun' but also 'friend', and this is how Mithras was worshipped, both as a distant sun-god and also as a close personal source of love and support (ideas which are not a million miles away from the concept of a 'guardian angel'...). For more information on Mithras see A Sceptic's Guide To Church History: Mithras. and The Cult Of Mithras.

ZOROASTRIANISM
A few paragraphs above we talked of how, in the fourth, third and second millenia before Christ, a number of migrations of European Indo-European people took place, with people of European ancestry finding their way eastward to Central Asia and as far as India. Zoroaster was a real-life member of this ethnic grouping, living in Persia (in and around present-day Iran, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan) around 650 BC, when as a result of what he claimed were angelic communications, he spread a monotheistic religious message that subsequently became the religion of the Persian empire (prior to these beliefs being superceded by Islam) and which also influenced both Muslim and Judaic thought (and then Christianity via Judaism).
Zoroastrianism identifies six main archangels: the Archangel of Good Thought, the Archangel of Right, the Archangel of Dominion, the Archangel of Piety, the Archangel of Prosperity and the Archangel of Immorality, along with at least 40 lesser angels called Adorable Ones. Some of these angels/archangels were considered to be male, some were considered to be female, and each one was associated with some particular attribute or quality. On a lower level again the third rank of angels in Zoroastrian cosmology were the Guardian Angels, each one assigned as guide, conscience, protector and helpmate throughout the life of one single human being. All of the various heirarchies of angels were considered to be divine gifts, all of them aspects or manifestations of the one 'Lord of Light'. Zoroastrians also believed that corresponding to the Lord of Light there was also a Lord of Darkness, with complementary demons and evil spirits, and it was felt that in the battle between light and darkness the forces of light would eventually win. To demonstrate the lengths to which one must go in an attempt to put together any sort of 'complete' history of angels, one need only look at some of the terminology: for instance the demons of Zoroastrianism, that are referred to as daevas, exist in opposition to 'angelic' forces that are referred to as ahuras. In the ancient Hinduism of the Vedas, however, we find demons referred to as asuras, existing in opposition to 'divine' forces known as devas.
Thus our present-day Western concept of a 'devil' derives from the Zoroastrian concept of a daeva (or demon). The word devil derives both from the word daeva (that can be traced right across to India, see below) and the Greek word daibolos, meaning 'slanderer' or 'accuser', which is clearly an attempt to embody the Jewish concept of Satan.

Judaism
The early Semitic peoples of the Middle East believed in a wide variety of what we would now call nature spirits. Seemingly their views were informed firstly by animistic beliefs of a general kind common to widely disparate cultures across the world (where intelligences are attributed to inanimate objects and natural phenomena) but secondly they were informed by Zoroastrianism (see above). Included among the legions of spirits were the spirits of wind and of fire, and these were held to be especially significant. These 'spirits' appear to have been the basis for what later came to be known as the cherubim and seraphim (associated with wind and fire respectively: -note: did you know that originally the seraphim were believed to have six wings [three pairs] and not just two..?).
Solomon was reputed to have been familiar with the language of birds...
When these polytheistic ancestors of present-day Judaism transformed themselves into something much closer to the monotheistic Judaism of today, (probably in the centuries before during and after Moses, around 1300 BC) a number of aspects of the ancestral religion(s) were inherited. Beliefs pertaining to angels were but one of many aspects of the precursor religion(s) that remained. Furthermore, the influence of Zoroastrainism continued throughout the millenium before Christ, with more and more angels (that were more and more 'the messengers of God') finding their way into Jewish writings. This is what a certain encyclopædia has to say on these particular angels (in a section on Judaism):

"... a veritable heavenly bureaucracy... they belong to that marginal area between religion and folklore. Like their counterfigures, the demons, they have a residual existence rooted in various layers of the Jewish experience and interpretation of the universe. At some times they are highly individualized and sharply realized; at others, they flit in and out of the imagination like bats in the evening. The medieval philosophers Aristotelized or Platonized them; the early mystics Neoplatonized them; the Kabbalists continually invented new ones and fitted them into their complicated network of cosmic existence".
Encyclopædia Britannica

The leader of the Hebrew forces of evil (aka shedim) was variously called Satan (the Antagonist), Belial (the spirit of perversion, darkness, and destruction), Mastema (Enmity, or Opposition), and more. Two archangels are mentioned in the canonical Old Testament: Michael, the warrior leader of the heavenly hosts, and Gabriel, the heavenly messenger. Two are mentioned in the apocryphal Old Testament: Raphael, God's healer or helper (in the book of Tobit), and Uriel (Fire of God), the watcher over the world and the lowest part of hell (qv the book of Esdras). The development of the idea of Satan as an archdemon in Judaism and Christianity was very likely to have been due to the influence of Zoroastrianism (see above): in the Book of Job the Judaic Satan was merely a prosecutor of men in the court of God's justice (whereas in a cosmology developed well after the books of the New Testament had been written in Christianity, we find Satan elevated to chief antagonist of Christ and men).
That the influence of Zoroastrianism should have been largely responsible for Satan in Judaism in particular, and angels in Judaism in general, is underlined by the fact that it was not until post-exilic times (that is, after the Jews returned from captivity in Babylon around 450 BC) that angels became an integral part of the Judaic monotheistic religion (as opposed to the polytheism referred to above). Other demons besides Satan that are mentioned in the Judaic Old Testament (ie the Pentatuech, the first five books of the Christian Old Testament also known as the Torah) include Azazel (the demon of the wilderness, also given form in the myth of the scapegoat) Leviathan and Rahab (demons of chaos), Lilith (a female demon of the night) and so on. I would urge keen angel-buffs to check out the Old Testament Book of Enoch (probably compiled in stages somewhere between 165 BC and the start of the Christian era) where the story of the fall of the group of angels known as the Watchers is told in some detail. A well-researched source of angelological detail can be found online at Angel Of The Day.

THE GREEKSThe word daemon, in the original Greek sense, meant a guardian divinity or inspiring spirit. A number of their gods could fly, such as Hermes [the Roman Mercury] who had wings on his feet and was considered to be the messenger of the gods. The English word hermenuetics derives from the name of this Greek god, which in it's traditional meaning of 'interpreting holy texts' undoubtedly included shades of 'making sense of the words of the gods', so retaining the idea of facilitating a dialogue between above and below.
In Greek mythology the idea of human flight crops up a number of times (for instance with the myth of Icarus, who not only learned to fly but whose ambition took him much too near the sun when he flew...). Greek thought was very inventive on just about every level but there is little doubt that Greece too owed an immense debt to the cultures of Babylon and Egypt (in particular) that preceded it.
One aspect of iconography that may be of special interest to an angelologist looking at the culture of ancient Greece is the image of the halo that Christian artists and sunday-school attendees have come to know and love. In Greek art the sun-god Helios was often depicted with a halo, that is, a radiant circle or disk surrounding the head in an attempt to represent spiritual character through the symbolism of light. In Romam times self-applauding emporers were sometimes also depicted with halos. (Because of its 'pagan' origin, however, this convention was avoided in early Christian art). Throughout the Middle Ages, however (by which time presumably the origins of the motif had been forgotten) angels were frequently depicted with circles of golden light surrounding their heads. Interestingly enough the halo is also found in Indian Buddhist art, appearing from the 3rd century AD onwards when it is believed that the motif was brought to the East by Greek invaders.

CHRISTIANITYMost Christian cosmology can be traced first and foremost to Judaism. However in certain respects Christian thinkers have developed their own ideas about angels. For instance, in 1259 AD Thomas Aquinas gave a series of lectures on angels at the University of Paris, and the views that were expounded then continued to be referred to in Christian thought for several centuries. A number of angels are referred to in the first books of the Old Testament (ie the books of the Judaic Torah) but angels are of course also referred to in the Christian New Testament as well, for instance in the Revelation of John, where divine truths are reputed to have been revealed to John of Patmos by an angel, or when the angel Gabriel informs Mary of her forthcoming pregnancy. Another example is when the messiahship of Jesus is reputed to have been proclaimed by angels at his birth.

Clement of Alexandria, one of the early church fathers of Christianity, appears to have been influenced by Hellenistic cosmology when he stated that angels functioned as the movers of the stars and controlled the four elements of earth, air, fire, and water. (A notion taken up later by alchemists in the Middle Ages). In Christianity 'fallen' angels have traditionally been referred to as 'demons', and in the European Middle Ages and the Reformation period, various hierarchies of demons were developed, such as that associated with the seven deadly sins: Lucifer (pride), Mammon (avarice), Asmodeus (lechery), Satan (anger), Beelzebub (gluttony), Leviathan (envy), and Belphegor (sloth). In the New Testament we find angels grouped into seven ranks: angels, archangels, principalities, powers, virtues, dominions, and thrones. And in addition to these were also added the Old Testament cherubim and seraphim (see above), which, with the seven other ranks, comprised the nine choirs of angels referred to in later Christian mystical theology. Christian cosmology also took on board the notion of a personal, or guardian, angel, an idea, as we have seen, that could have been imported from any number of possible sources (from Zoroastrianism to Judaism to ancient Greece or Egypt). The concept of a guardian angel is one that has proved remarkably 'durable': it is not uncommon to this day for a Catholic to say a prayer to their 'holy guardian angel': a practise that the church heirarchy has not discouraged.

ISLAMMuhammed was alive around 630 AD, and the religion that he founded spread rapidly across many parts of the Middle East and Central Asia, often to the exclusion of other, older religions, where such practises as the use of the human form in the imagery of these other religions was not always tolerated. Furthermore, there is no Islamic iconography that includes angels, since to create reproducible angel images would have been considered blasphemous. Islam has it's own implicit cosmology nonetheless, and much of this is borrowed either from the cosmology of 'the Judaism of the prophets' (that is, borrowed from the beliefs of the Semitic peoples of the Middle East after 450 BC) or it is borrowed from Zoroastrianism, a belief system that predates Islam and which Islam replaced in many places.
Consequently angels are also prominent in Islam. The archangel Gabriel is reputedly responsible for communicating to Muhammed the whole basis of what subsequently became the Muslim faith. The Islamic hierarchy of demons is headed by Iblis (the devil), who also is called Shaytan (Satan). Lesser benign angels, malevolent demons and 'genies' (or 'djinn') are also frequently referred to in the Koran. For instance one of the five cardinal beliefs of Muslims is the idea of the Day of Judgment, where individuals are questioned about their faith by the two angels Munkar and Nakir after death. Other well-known examples are Jibril (Gabriel), the angel of revelation; Mikal (Michael), the angel of nature, who gives man both food and knowledge; Izrail, angel of death; and Israfil, the angel who sounds the trumpet on the day of the Last Judgment. [PS if there are any etymologists out there who can demonstrate a connection between the Arabic word 'jinn' and the Greek word 'genius' I would love to hear from them...]. Whilst the absence of concrete iconography in Islam makes it more difficult to track the importation of imagery from earlier religions, we can nonetheless find echoes throughout Islamic literature: a good example perhaps being the Conference of Birds by Attar-e Neyshaburi, who was a famous 12th C Muslim mystical poet and thinker, which is an extended metaphor for the journey of the soul towards divinity, each bird in the story representing the soul of an individual. This echoes very ancient Central Asian beliefs that go right back to the shamanism of the neolithic era.

THE SHAMANIC CONNECTIONI've left the best 'til last[!], although logically this paragraph should be really be somewhere near the beginning of our excursion in the territory of angels.
Even today, after all of the political and cultural upheavals of the last two centuries, pockets of shamanic belief and practise have survived across Asia, from Tibet in the east, to Lapland in the west, to Siberia in the north. In Central Asia shamanism appears to have disappeared in most places for at least a millenium. (One exception, where shamanism survived the process of Islamisation, is Kazakstan, an area somewhat on the fringes of the Islamic world, both culturally and geographically).
If, as seems likely, shamanism did exist in most parts of Central Asia originally, then evangelical Islam may have been the reason for it's demise. There is a degree of conjecture here, of course, a situation compounded by the fact that the archaelogy of Central Asia has really only gained a global audience in the last 30 years, with many new findings from digs in the 'stans' of Central Asia (Kazakstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, etc) only recently coming to light, along with new work in such places as Anatolia and Kurdistan further west. All of this work is helping archaeologists push backwards with a clearer gaze into the past, particularly into a pre-Sumerian Neolithic past. One small aspect of these ancient cultures that has come to light, which is relevant here hwoever, is an apparent shared interest in birds as an important aspect of the belief systems of these peoples.
The image above shows an impression of a room called the 'vulture shrine' in the town of Çatal Hüyük, a fascinating site still being excavated at Anatolia, Turkey. (See also William J. Gilmore-Lehne's Study of Çatal Hüyük). Çatal Hüyük culture dates back to 6,500 BC (a long time ago to be sure) and yet these people were (perhaps) surprisingly sophisticated. The vulture image appears to represent for them a god-form, responsible for removing the head (ie the soul?) of the deceased, as can be seen in the picture above. They may have practised 'sky-burials' (where corpses are left to the birds to eat) or the imagery may have been entirely metaphorical, or both. There is some evidence to suggest that over time as this culture developed the bird image evolved into that of a 'vulture-goddess'. But most importantly one of the murals from Çatal Hüyük apparently shows a human being dressed in a vulture skin.
The ritual coats of present-day Siberian shamans are cut to look like birds: they are cut to a point and tasselled in a way that is suggestive of feathers, and this is quite deliberate. And although in all the forms of shamanism across Asia there is little interest in the production of concrete images of winged humans, the notion of the shaman being able to fly is nonetheless universal. When durable stone 'angel' motifs do start to appear in Sumeria around 3,000 BC, the wings of these winged beings seem to signify an ability to travel to places that ordinary people can't reach, along with an ability to 'mediate' between the human world and some other 'higher' state or states. Both of these qualities are (also) universally considered to be the main attributes of a shaman. Undoubtedly this also helps explain why shamen across the world generally tend to have a strong connection with birds. The shaman can 'fly' in trance, travelling to the realm of the spirits where he can then either do battle against malign entities, or try and persuade, flatter, cajole or otherwise entreat the spirits to act for the benefit of one or more human beings.

With all of this in mind, intuition tells us that the iconography of angels 'surely must' be rooted in the ancient shamanic cultures of Central Asia, predating even the culture of the Sumerians in the fourth millenium BC. It is so easy and so tempting to think that 'surely' the image of a shaman, resembling a bird, travelling in trance to the realm of the gods and back again, 'must' have given rise to the original 'angel motif'. But intuition in archaeology can give rise to all manner of whacky theories (for instance the Victorian belief that the big flat stone at the centre of Stonehenge was for sacrificing virgins). We should always careful of making assumptions when the evidence in support of our pet theories is tenuous.
However in the last few decades archaeological research has come to light which, when added to the evidence from Çatal Hüyük, begins to lend very strong weight to the idea of a 'shamanic connection'. In the 1950's the archaelogist/anthropologists Rose Solecki and her husband Ralph began excavating a cave site near the Greater Zab river in Kurdistan. This cave had been used for burials by the Zawi Chami people (as this small area is called) around 8870 BC (plus or minus 300 years, according to carbon-dating) which is perhaps 4,000 years before the beginnings of the Sumerian culture referred to here. What did they discover that was so significant? They found a number of goat skulls placed next to the wing bones of large predatory birds, including the bearded vulture, the griffon vulture, the white-tailed sea eagle and the great bustard. The Soleckis had to ask themselves what the purpose of such a 'ritual burial' was, and why it was that only certain species of birds had been selected.
In 1977 the journal Sumer published an article by Rose Solecki entitled `Predatory Bird Rituals at Zawi Chemi Shanidar' where she described the findings, going on to suggest that the wings had almost certainly been utilised as part of some kind of ritualistic costume, worn either for personal decoration or for ceremonial purposes. She connected the finds with the vulture shamanism of the protoneolithic Çatal Hüyük community in Central Anatolia mentioned above (which was 2000 years later in time, and more than 500 miles away in distance). Recognising the importance of their discovery, however, Rose Solecki concluded the article by saying

"The Zawi Chemi people must have endowed these great raptorial birds with special powers, and the faunal remains we have described for the site must represent special ritual paraphernalia. Certainly, the remains represent a concerted effort by a goodly number of people just to hunt down and capture such a large number of birds and goats... either the wings were saved to pluck out the feathers, or that wing fans were made, or that they were used as part of a costume for a ritual. One of the murals from a Catal Hayuk shrine ... depicts just such a ritual scene; ie, a human figure dressed in a vulture skin"
R. Solecki, Predatory Bird Rituals At Zawi Chemi Shanidar.

Kurdish scholar Mehrdad Izady agrees that the predatory bird remains of the Shanidar cave can be seen as evidence of a shamanistic culture whose memory influenced the development of the very notion of an angel. Within living memory Kurdistan has been home to three indigenous angel cults, the most famous being the Yezidis of Iraqi Kurdistan. Their belief system centres on supreme angelic being named Melek Taus, the `peacock angel'. Melek Taus is often depicted in the form of a strange bird icon known as a sanjaq, although the oldest known sanjaqs are apparently not peacocks at all, having bulbous avian bodies and hooked beaks. Izady has suggested that the sanjaq idols may actually be representations predatory birds similar to those (apparently) venerated by a shamanic Zawi Chami people.

"Shamanism is a system of belief common to the Turks of Central Asia. Both men and women could be shaman priests and among old Turkish groups they were called "Kam". Kams dressed in elaborate garments to display their supernatural powers. Accompanied by the beating of drums in their rituals, they believed they could fly with the aid of their own guardian animal. During such flights they reached various levels of Heaven or the Underworld. Upon returning to this world, they used the information they had learned during their journey for the benefit of their followers".

One last word: 'do I think angels exist? -I'm agnostic! But what does seem certain is that culture is the main factor determining the way in which people 'see' angels. Objectivity lies in one direction, subjectivity in another, with 'experience' somewhere in the middle...
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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  KapitanScarlet on Sat 06 Oct 2012, 12:11


This image (known as a Faravahar) is one of the most common symbols of the Zoroastrian religion. Once frequently used on Persian royal inscriptions as a sign of divine authority, it has come to represent the human soul (or guardian angel) and is still used in "modern" Zoroastrianism.


It seems apparent that all current human knowledge exoteric and esoteric , derives from the "messenger" "entity" philosophy of humans communicating or being visited by higher knowing intelligences that then feed information through human vessel for distilation in various layers throughout human society


Whether information is powerful or not so, is not related to its release date, its related to how that information clashes with the current power structure in humanity in regard to monetary and religious control systems

The monetary system is pretty well defended using a fort knox model of accounting and legal fenceposts , although there are still some holes available in its armour

But the religious control is most open to any new messenger that is able to distribute a new philosophy of interpretation which has the energy to remap existing dogma in a rejuvenating manner

Hence why the medes are the guard-dogs of religion , but even they are not infallible to infiltration , but by making all the main religions of the world = closed shops , and then hijacking and manipulating and making impotent the very special tools that have the available dogma destroy and create buttons in their function which are philosophy and psychology and the mystical realm of folklore, they have also done a brilliant job of building a giant controllable dam on human individual creativity

In addition to that, they have gone after the messengers themselfs using intellectualized adjusted craft entity contact methods to try and build a further dam at the gates of the psychic realms

But still "they" come through the cracks Very Happy

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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  KapitanScarlet on Fri 08 Mar 2013, 23:43

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Re: All Things Native and Ancient

Post  KapitanScarlet on Mon 01 Apr 2013, 22:51

OMERTA = A rule or code that prohibits speaking or divulging information about certain activities, especially the activities of a criminal organization.
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